Did Carol Kaye record this song?

Discussion in 'Bassists [BG]' started by Beefbass, Oct 7, 2001.

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  1. Beefbass

    Beefbass Guest

    Feb 4, 2001
    Hey guys, I was reading some articles I got from Carol Kaye. One thing struck me kind of odd though; she says she played bass on Dusty Springfields "Son of a preacher man."
    I have the utmost respect for Carol, but wasn't that recorded in Memphis? I thought that Tommy Cogbill played on that.
    If anyone out there knows for sure, could you please shed some light on this? I'm not accusing her of anything, as it's possible she did play on it. I just thought that that particular song was recorded in Memphis, specifically because thats the sound that was desired for that song.
    I could be wrong though.
  2. Chandler909


    Oct 9, 2001
    That does smell fishy doesn't it? I would probably say she didn't play on it. No offense to Carol Kaye but come on! Please!!! She kills all her cred by saying these things. I have heard her take credit for stuff James Jamerson did and also Joe Osbourne. That just not cool
  3. rickbass

    rickbass Supporting Member

    Wasn't she actually Jamerson in drag???

    I don't believe anything she says about her credits. I've seen video and read interviews with people who were involved with the recording of numerous sessions she claims. And they say she wasn't within a mile of the studio where the actual recordings were made. That is just the lowest. :rolleyes:
  4. rllefebv


    Oct 17, 2000
    Newberg, Oregon
    That is 100% Tommy Cogbill... It was recorded at Chips Moman's and Don Crews' American Recording Studio in Memphis, Tennessee, one of Tommy's mainstay gigs. This is the first time I've ever heard it attributed to Carol Kaye, who despite the controversy, did play on many great west coast hits...

  5. Gabu


    Jan 2, 2001
    Woodland Hills, CA
    I heard here at TB that she did record many of the tunes in question, but there was a question as to whether her recording was used. :confused: I could be mis-remembering.
  6. I read somewhere that Mr Osbourne (Joe, not Ozzy) played on S+G's "Bridge Over Troubled Water". Is that true? Cos whoever did the bass on "Only Living Boy In New York" gets respect from me; I love that line!

    Son of a Preacher Man... good song.
  7. I am shocked :eek: You mean we can't always believe bass players when they tell us what they've played??
    I suppose some confusion about which recording was used is understandable, but do we have to question their integrity??? I'm amazed.
  8. JMX

    JMX Vorsprung durch Technik

    Sep 4, 2000
    Cologne, Germany
    The Carol Kaye debate is going on for years now - I only hope it's gonna stay the only one of that kind...:rolleyes:
  9. Josh Ryan

    Josh Ryan - that dog won't hunt, Monsignor. Staff Member Supporting Member

    Mar 24, 2001
    I think if it comes up enough, then yes we may very well question that persons integrity, Kaye or anyone else making wild claims. On the other hand, she does have a VERY abrasive (online at least) personality so I can see how people would be willing to take a rumor and run with it. The confusion does seem to be part of an over all theme though....:rolleyes:
  10. It was the Sixties. Maybe she had too much of the wacky tobaccy back then and doesnt remember correctly.
    Im only familiar with Kaye's playing on the Beach Boys 'Pet Sounds', and some Spector stuff, she is a great player.
  11. Beefbass

    Beefbass Guest

    Feb 4, 2001
    I would just like to say, Carol Kaye is not only a great player, but a very good person as well. I have the utmost respect for her in both ways. I have some of her books, and her bass video course. IMO very good teaching material.
    In the case of "Son of a preacher man" however, I only have doubts, because I remember reading about how Dusty met Memphis for that song. I know that Carol was number 1 in LA, but to my knowledge, did not record outside of there.
    Sometimes, when you do a lot of sessions, I suppose there are gonna be gray areas. For example, I believe both Carol and Joe Osborn recorded with Simon and Garfunkel. Some questions have been raised as to which one recorded which songs. I know that Joe has stated he can't honestly remember which ones he did, because there were so many.
    So, this is not an attack on Carol, but just an honest inquiry.
  12. RS


    Aug 27, 2000
    Cleveland, OH
    If you were an accomplished studio muscian, why would you lie about songs credits? But she has the rep that she does. Is she telling the truth?
  13. rllefebv


    Oct 17, 2000
    Newberg, Oregon
    Carol Kaye did keep a very detailed log of her studio dates. Most of what I have heard and/or read regarding the controversy over who played what seemed to be centered on the Motown hits and James Jamerson. Many Motown demos were recorded in L.A. while the masters may or may not have been recorded in Detroit. Studios were more interested in how many records were sold rather than who played on them, so discographies are sketchy at best. She certainly recorded many demos for Motown which were probably re-recorded by their Detroit stable of musicians, just as it is highly probable that some of her takes were used.

    My point is that none of the controversy can take away from the fact that Carol Kaye is one of the greats. The hits that are 100% verifiably hers bears this out. This is kind of like saying that OJ wasn't a great football player, or that Pete Rose wasn't Mr. Hustle... The later-day controversies don't negate the previous acheivements.

    As for 'Son of a Preacher Man'... I have never heard this anywhere but right here on TalkBass. For what it's worth, this song is completely, verifiably, 100% certainly Tommy Cogbill.

  14. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Commercial User

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    Boom Bass Cabinets, DR strings
    This was discussed awhile back on TBL, among other places.

    PS. OJ, Pete Rose and Carol Kaye?
  15. Skratch


    Jan 8, 2007
    As far as the Carol Kaye debate, I have no dog in that race, but I've always wondered who played that lovely bass line in Son of a Preacher Man, I found this: http://www.bassplayer.com/story.asp?storyCode=13259

    and I'm convinced, Tommy Cogbill is the man.
  16. I will say that I think she is a great player. Her playing on Pet Sounds, Planet of the Apes Soundtrack and Hicky Burr are some of the best in the history of the instrument.

    When you take into consideration the Jamerson controversy, the Cogbill claim and I think she claims some of Jerry Scheff's work with the Doors, you have to start to wonder.
  17. steveb98

    steveb98 [acct disabled - multiple aliases]

    Mar 15, 2006
    Venice, CA
    Carol Kaye makes a lot of claims. I think she did covers of songs for other artists and she just hear's titles and thinks she did them.

    All I can say is listen to the track. Carol played with a pick so a lot of attack to her notes. She also played on top the beat compared to laid back style of others. Then Carol IMO tended to play in one and two bar lines/motifs and repeat them. She didn't really play longer motifs like others. Good Vibrations might be the exception to that.

    She was a good bass player and hit the scene when there was tons of studio work. Being she was a sight reading monster she got a lot work with arrangers for Pop artists doing covers or Top Ten hits.

    So I say listen to the recordings she claims to of done and see if it sounds like her.
  18. The Lurker

    The Lurker

    Aug 16, 2002
    yeah, she keeps an ostensibly detailed session log, but the overwhelming mount of evidence, including pay stubs, bookkeeping stuff, corporate records, and the memories of the Funk Brothers and everyone at the Motown works in Detroit (and not a few of the LA guys) are absolutely against her, at least as far as the Jamerson claims go.
  19. Thor

    Thor Moderator Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Both Ray Pohlman and Gary Berghofer played on Pet Sounds,
    and I am pretty sure Gary plays DB on that track under Carol.

    I found a pic of Carol doing some recording.

  20. The Lurker

    The Lurker

    Aug 16, 2002

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