Diggler would've been put away for life.

So if someone takes away one of your rights, do you no longer have that right? Or do you still have the right, even though it's been taken away?

And if you still have it, how can it have been taken away?

What I mean is, if you live someone where free speech is banned, do you have a right to free speech? Or not?

Go round in circles thinking about this for long enough and the true nature of rights (as conventions, rather than absolutes) becomes apparent. The only rights you REALLY have are the ones your society allows you.

So arguing about whether any of them is actually a genuine right or not is pretty much meaningless, really.

 

Oh, I think I do understand. And I don't think it's a Europe/US difference. There's lots of people in Europe who believe in rights as "real things" because they fail to see that they exist only as long as you're allowed them. They're no good to you if you're not.

I should add, by the way, that in my view the fragile nature of our rights makes it all the more important to affirm them and defend them when they're eroded.

 

Fixed.

 

If rights are not "real things," then we should all just kill ourselves now, because there's no reason to live if you only do so at the whim of another.

 

Now, as I see it, you don't understand. Rights, by their very nature, are not fragile.

 

Tell that to the countless sorry people on this planet who don't have any. I'm sure it will be a great comfort to them.

 

You're correct and I should clarify.

Rights are, of course, "real things" as long as they are maintained and protected. The fact that they can disappear so easily is something that it is wise to be aware of.

 

See, now that's just wrong. And, I'm not kidding when I say that line of thinking is what leads to the illegal immigration problems in so many countries.

People have the right and the obligation to overthrow a government that oppresses them. Look at the US, the USSR, France (!), etc., etc. If people choose to run away, they have voluntarily given up that right and do nothing to correct the injustice in the place they've left behind.

Rights exist whether they are exercised or not. It doesn't mean they aren't real, though.

 

How are you going to defend them when you've been disarmed?

 

The Rwanda crime rate has dropped significantly since the adoption of the gun control law

As for you US interference comment, as usual, when someone throws out an argument you can't reply to, you take a cheap shot on a subject that is completely off topic. But hey, who can blame you? Ignorance can only take you so far

 

The rights don't disappear. But, governments can create such an atmosphere of fear that people are afraid to exercise them. And, I agree, eternal vigilance in the protection of rights is both a necessity and an obligation.

 

The rights dont dissapear because they've never been there in the first place. Alot of these people have lacked many of those fundamental rights, from the day they were born to the day they die.

 

You mean, if you don't count all the hundreds of thousands of people hacked apart with machetes?

 

The "rights" are not gone. There are oppressive governments who would suppress those rights and as Geezer pointed out, folks can either revolt or run away. But rights cannot just disappear. Contrary to socialist thinking.

Like that there. Rights are not a "treat" handed out by elitist government officials. Those are correctly called privileges and, as such, may be revoked.

 

Well, we've had some form of democracy here for nearly 800 years. I don't think I'll be needing a gun to protect myself from marauding government troops for a while yet.

 

show me some proof?

 

Pick up your gun and go fight for their rights then, if thats what you believe.


I can't believe how naive some people are.