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Dingwall super J's and P's 4ers - balance and neck dive?

Discussion in 'Basses [BG]' started by Honch, Feb 27, 2016.


  1. Honch

    Honch Guest

    Sep 7, 2006
    Hi dear forum members!

    This is geared only to those who owns or have owned a Dingwall super J or P (or PJ).

    As I can see in the classifieds, a number of cool high end basses are for sale. Seeing a few 4 strings Super Js and PJ's from Dingwall. As I live in Sweden and most ships to CONUS only I am out of the soup. However, in Scandinavia there's no chance (in h) to try or check them out anyways. No one of the YT videos by Dingwall or others makes any of the balance and neck dive things ANY priority.

    Now, it does for me. I am contemplating and considering a ramp up from my Combustion (5er) and want a 4 string too, at the slightly shorter 32-34.5 fan fret neck.

    As I know that regular Fender J's and P's do neck dive severely (apart from most of the body heavy and really solid 70s basses) ...

    I wonder how much the Dingwall Super J's and P's neck dive? If any at all?

    To some, this ain't - and has never been - an issue, but to me, if I should make the plunge with a 3 grand bass that is custom, I want to know this. It's a thing that you can't really measure by just stating weight or hardware, or that the body isn't chambered. So to those who has, or have owned one, and has played any Fenders too (which you certainly have, regardless of not owning them) to state a neck dive or balance comparison. I'd rather ask here than on the Dingwall forum. I am mostly interested how it performs when sitting down.

    It seems that these days, all manufacturers seems to be wanting builds with lighter wood bodys, but with high density maple necks. I did dis-assemple my combustion, separating neck and body and when all hardware was gone, the neck weighs totally more than the body. When removing just tuners from the headstock, the bass neck dives still. I mean, when neck/body is together again of course. I am starting to find the neck diving of the Combustion really starting to be liability by now.
     
  2. BassBuzzRS

    BassBuzzRS

    Oct 18, 2005
    Norway
    It neck dives right into your wallet, ravages the content in there, but then you will probably be smiling anyway, thus the quality of the instrument is proven! :) :)
    (Sorry I could'nt be of any help)
     
  3. Craig82

    Craig82

    Mar 9, 2009
    I have a Super P. It weighs 7lbs and balances absolutely perfectly. Zero neck dive. I have owned close to 40 basses, and the Dingwall blows them all away. The fit, finish, playability and tone are top notch.I highly recommend buying one. You won't be disappointed.
     
    DiabolicLow B, MDBass and Honch like this.
  4. spiritbass

    spiritbass Supporting Member

    Jun 9, 2004
    Ashland, MO
    No worries, brother. I have a four-string Super J/P (P/J) and a four-string Super P. They both balance perfectly. The SJ/P weighs 8lbs, 11oz and the SP weighs 7lbs, 4oz. I have owned a couple of 70's Fender jazz basses (long, long ago). My most recent Fender basses were Squiers. Sheldon's "tributes" to Leo's iconic basses are in a league of their own. Yes, they are that good. :cool:
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
    MDBass and Honch like this.
  5. I also made the step up from the Combustion to the Super J (the 5-string in my case). The Super J has Hipshot Ultralite tuners which make a huge difference even with the chambered body. Also, the neck on the Super J is shorter with the shorter scale, and the horn extends to the 11th fret on the bass side on the SJ (compared with the 12th on the Combustion). The headstock is longer, being 4+1 vs 2+3, but there is a scoop.

    The Combustion was 9.1 lb and the Super J is 9.2 lb despite the larger body.

    image.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
  6. Sheldon D.

    Sheldon D.

    Oct 3, 2001
    Balancing is on a strap is one thing, balancing on your lap is another. In my experience you need a reverse lower horn to balance well on the lap. We do this on the Prima Artist.
     
  7. Do you mean that the tip of the horn curves towards the floor?
     
  8. DiabolusInMusic

    DiabolusInMusic Functionless Art is Merely Tolerated Vandalism Supporting Member

    Yup, check it out here.

    Prima Artist | Dingwall Guitars

    I find most basses do not balance on my lap, only when strapped.
     
    MDBass and therealting like this.
  9. Interesting. I think Parkers have that design too, it makes sense.
     
  10. Honch

    Honch Guest

    Sep 7, 2006
    Unless you go headless, or heavier or more dense body. Or additional hardware. There are strange designs in the bass world that resides on lap perfectly when sitting down. The most recent i tried, I was intrigued of by the design, but not the sound. Believe it or not, Hagström Beluga...and it looks like this, 34 scale, but here's the caveat, it is heavy but does not feel heavy at all, neither when sitting or standing with a strap, the thing is, they can't be "body diving (!)" either. I e turn the balance off at the bodys side, it's of equal annoyance :



    IDS0027782.

    The thing is, is that I thought that if the Super J/P s goes from 32-34.5 (the 4ers) I think it would throw the sitting down balance in a favorable direction. My Combustion neck dives quite some when sitting down even with a strap on. My friend had a red Combustion that he changed out pickups in, to EMGs. He changed out knobs to metal ones, and changed the back plate out to a steel one, i e made "everything" heavier at the body side, that could be changed out without intruding too much. All of a sudden it levelled out to some degree, still neck dived, but not so much that it wasn't an annoyance. I won't do this though, I can manage it for short periods of time.
     
  11. Honch

    Honch Guest

    Sep 7, 2006
    Would it become better if the strap knob was screwed into one of the neck screws at the back instead? I e moved from the upper horn DOWN to the neck joint screws?

    - - - - -

    While I've found that most basses can balance WELL when standing with a strap on, the may not be well balanced when sitting on a lap. However, I've yet to see any bass that balance well when sitting down on lap, that doesn't follow the same balance when standing up with a strap on. I e if the balance well sitting down, on lap, they do so too when standing up with a strap. However, the other way around can be a hit and miss.

    I think it's correlated to how much "wood" there is behind the bridge. I e how much "show off" wood there is behind the bridge until the bass body actually ends. I've found that the closer the bridges are to the very end/back of the body, the less neck diving.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
  12. On the Combustion, you also have the option of swapping the Ping tuners for Hipshot Ultralites.
     
  13. MDBass

    MDBass Supporting Member

    Nov 7, 2012
    Los Angeles, CA
    Endorsing Artist: Dingwall-Fender-Jule-Dunlop-Tech 21-Darkglass-Nordstrand
    Wear a strap that actually supports the bass instead of letting the weight rest in your lap if that's your primary concern.

    No Dingwall has any neck dive issues.
     
    BurningSkies likes this.
  14. DiabolusInMusic

    DiabolusInMusic Functionless Art is Merely Tolerated Vandalism Supporting Member

    An ABZ will not sit on your lap. It will in a couple key positions if you sit just right but it won't while you're playing it, at least not for me.

    Really though, I don't think I own any basses they don't dive on my lap.
     
    Matthew_84 and MDBass like this.
  15. MDBass

    MDBass Supporting Member

    Nov 7, 2012
    Los Angeles, CA
    Endorsing Artist: Dingwall-Fender-Jule-Dunlop-Tech 21-Darkglass-Nordstrand
    The shape/thickness of, and distance between, everyone's quadrecepts is different; playing seated and strapless is obviously not a particularly accurate measurement of neck dive if every bass you own tries to dive out of your lap in that scenario ;)

    I've certainly had basses with neck dive issues before, but none of the Dingwall basses I've owned (Combustion, NG-2, ABZ, AB1, Super P, Super J) were among them.
     
  16. Honch

    Honch Guest

    Sep 7, 2006
    I've taken them all off. It still neck dives the same regardless of no tuners on at all. But as Combustion is their entrance model, or "gateway" bass, one can think that they just have to skimp on things here and there. And since many other basses and brands does neck dive and people just seem to not give a **** it's basically a non-issue for some. I've now and then come across basses that DON'T neck dive WITH headstocks, both on lap and when strapped on standing up, and I've wondered about the design. Mind you Music Mans "new" Reflex game changer bass does neither (neck dives either when standing or sitting). It's headstocked. SOME of the old MM Stingray didn't, some did.

    I think it wouldn't be that detrimental to overall design (definitely not playability) to increase the density of the body, to make them a little more balanced. Making them of other kinds of wood, or other kinds of design.

    One would like to think that headless's basses would tip over the other way, to be body heavy but they don't.
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2016
  17. Fair enough. I usually use a strap when seated anyway, a suede one that doesn't slip.
     
  18. graphics1988

    graphics1988 Supporting Member

    Oct 26, 2014
    Ontario Canada
    I have 2 Super pj's and an abz (all 4 strings) and I don't think ANY neck dive whatsoever. I sit most of the time while I play (3 deteriorated lower back discs and a bulging disc, forces me to sit mostly)...I will add, that I still use my strap when I sit (maybe that's weird)but it rests on my thigh still - just for a bit of balance I guess- ...and I use that same strap for standing too - without re-adjusting it...so I guess mine is a bit higher on my body than waist height. I find if I DON'T use a strap when sitting, I tend to hunch over it and then my right shoulder gets uncomfortable aches. I would say neck dive is a non-issue. We could talk about my Fenders and neck dive though. ;)
     
    Honch likes this.
  19. Honch

    Honch Guest

    Sep 7, 2006
    Of course a tiny neck dive isn't an issue. But having get used to headless balance (say a Klein K-bass) and the longevity without getting fatigued for long hours in the studio, one starts to wonder if there's not some other brand or design with headstock that possess the same virtues. And as you go up to the upper echelons of bass building as a fine arts, you seem to start to get prickish, pickier about such details, just as you get picky about finish, color, dents, dead spots, tones, timbre, and the rest. If I pay 2-3 grand for an upper end bass (or more) one tends to demand a little more in all other areas too, on top of the other usual things that they nailed - more than right. Sort of go over the top, overachievement (!?). If that's a word.

    The less towards a grand and under a grand for any bass, I think it's a tall order to demand something like that.

    There is a thing with these extreme basses that has both extended range, and multiscale. As fast as they go over towards 7-9 string "basses" they tip over like hell, if they're headstock with just as many tuners on the headstock. So it's good to see some has resorted to headless on those unwieldy things. LeFay, .Strandberg Guitarworks and so on. The more strings, the more headless seems to be the norm.

    Which ones of these do you think neck dives the most:

    DO1_0858.


    or this one? :

    DSC03055.
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2016
  20. Honch

    Honch Guest

    Sep 7, 2006
    And I am just looking for a "tiny" 4 string bass that has a starting 32" scale, that doesn't neck dive when sitting down without a strap? Is it really too much to ask for?
     

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