direct out or mic?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by slapinandpopin7, Apr 30, 2005.

  1. My amp has a direct out on it, but the sound at shows hasnt been to great, would using a mic for it be a better idea?

    head: GK backline350
    cab: carvin 2 10.
  2. illidian


    Jul 2, 2004
    Maybe the problem is you're running your D.I. post EQ? Or maybe your soundman just sucks.

    I think you may be best by purchasing a quality dedicated D.I. unit. A favorite aroung here is the Sansamp Bass Driver DI, which goes for about $190, or the new programmable version for about $200. This pedal may not be for you, but many here love it. I think you should give it a try.

    Most soundmen will simply hate having to mic cabs, and others will downright refuse. If the soundman isn't very experienced in this matter ,it will turn out horribly. Soundmen appreciated nice clean levels with most of the work up to them.
  3. What is the difference between the pre EQ and post EQ in terms of sound?
  4. Exactly what it says it is... pre EQ takes the DI signal straight from your input into the head, post EQ takes the DI signal from after the EQ section in your head so your EQ settings are sent to the sound board.

    I much prefer a mic, but as everyone else has said most soundmen will refuse (I don't see how it's any different than micing a guitar cab personally, except you need to use a different mic :confused: ). I usually send the board my post EQ post compression signal unless I have a soundman who is really good and I can trust to shape my tone appropriately.
  5. illidian


    Jul 2, 2004
    The Pre EQ will actually be the sound of your bass.

    The Post EQ will be the sound of your bass after the EQ, more or less what you hear coming out of your speakers.

    What are your EQ settings? That could be another mess...
  6. EQ

    treble: 5

    high mid: 1

    low mid: 1

    bass: 6

    and the contour is all the way up.
  7. oh yea and my bass is active with 18 volts, if that makes a difference im not sure.
  8. illidian


    Jul 2, 2004
    Are those o' clock values (I wouldn't think so with six, but before I jump to conclusions)?
  9. no, just normal 1-10, i should have been spicific about that
  10. illidian


    Jul 2, 2004

    You need mids!!!

    Mids allow you to cut through. Especially when you are only using a sub-200 watt amp.

    I suggest you turn the contour down (to the Flat setting), put the Treble at 10 o' clock, High Mids at 3 o' clock, Low Mids at 4 o' clock, Bass at 9 o' clock. Very extreme settings, so you'll probably want to tweak a lot of it down to flat.

    Your mix will always sound like crap if you aren't boosting mids. Does it sound good while jamming alone in your bedroom? Depends on what you think sounds good. But there is no way you'll cut through with the mids cut all the way (13dB I believe it is) with a 175 watt amp (assuming the Carvin is four ohm, if not it's sub-100 watts). If your drummer plays with his hands very softly, and your guitarist plays a 10 watt combo, you may be in luck. But I doubt this is the case.

    Hopefully someone else will come by and give you more details. But you need mids to be heard with other people in a band. Cut treble and bass, boost the mids. You aren't able to EQ freely unless you have a huge poweramp (and even then, you can't always freely EQ), which in most cases would be in excess of 2,000 watts.
  11. ok thanks alot. im not a fan of mids, even though they do make the sound cut through alittle more. ill try the setting you recomended, thank you very much.
  12. illidian


    Jul 2, 2004
    As a bassist, you must learn to be a fan of mids.

    Mids are what makes a bass cut through, not just a little more, but at all.

    With GK, you're best leaving the amp flat and slowly tweaking from there. Go into band practice with it flat, and slowly cut and boost frequencies, no more than one o' clock position at a time. Gallien-Krueger's Equalizers are In-Series, meaning they all interact with each other. It's a very powerful EQ, and is very straightforward and predictable once it is used to.
  13. yea, i am pretty new to this. thanks alot for the help.
  14. jokerjkny


    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
  15. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA

    yes you need mids in a big way. what sounds good when you play by yourself generally wont cut thru at all live. bring your mids up and you may find you dont need to put your bass thru the pa at all.

    oh and that countour knob as also cutting a lot of mids as well so you're sucking every bit of those frequencies out.

    go check out the eq thread linked in the faq sticky at the top of this forum. also i think if you search a bit there are some great threads on pre and post eq di, and cabinet micing.

    for the most part i would stick with pre eq on your di, or using a seperate di without eq. the di in your gk may or may not be good, but it wont be as good as a quality di like a countryman, radial, avolon, aguilar etc.

    micing a cabinet can sound good but there are limitations when doing this live. your cab and the mic will both color the sound and not give as "true" of a signal to the board as a good di will. when i do sound i prefer a nice non-eq'd direct signal from the bass so i can adjust it as needed rather than being stuck with an altered signal that i can't fix.

    as far as needing a special mic, that's not really true. i've used sure sm-57s live and in the studio for bass cabs, and so has the rest of the world.
  16. Sure you could use a 57, and I have both live and in the studio, but generally speaking a mic more designed to pick up bass frequencies is desirable.

    Back to the EQ thing, what has worked for me is never touching the EQ when I'm playing alone, and only adjusting it when playing with my band. This way you see how the tonal adjustments sound in the context of a band setting, which is what really matters unless you're playing solo bass shows.
  17. illidian


    Jul 2, 2004
    Micing a cab that is completely mid scooped won't work.

    If you find a soundman who can mic a cab well and you like the sound, go for it. Good luck with that, but stick with a good D.I. in the meantime.
  18. I suppose that's true... I'm assuming it's a good tone coming from the cabinet in the first place - and one that isn't reproduced as well via DI - or there'd be no point in miccing it. I mean you're never going to get a heavily overdvien tube amp sound out of a D.I. that can compare to a mic'd cab.