Distorted mids (only)

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by Zbysek, Oct 3, 2022.

  1. Zbysek

    Zbysek

    Mar 23, 2017
    Czech Republic
    Yes, I certainly hope so...

    Interesting, thank you.

    Does he switch between clean and dirty signals during the show? If he doesn't, he might not need the Big Shot. He might just put the Radial DI box in front of the MXR pedal...
     
  2. Zbysek

    Zbysek

    Mar 23, 2017
    Czech Republic
    I have the task of isolating the mids covered-I will use the Broughton RFE pedal as a band-pass filter after the dirt pedal.

    I am aware of the possibility of phase issues. If it arises, it will be dealt with at the board or using the polarity switch on my JDI.

    Yeah, we might need to cut some mids from the clean signal to make room for the distorted mids. We are lucky because our BL owns a professional recording studio and we rehearse there... So we have all the equipment needed to prepare our sound design...I am looking forward to our rehearsal next week to see how does my new setup work.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2022
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  3. sprag

    sprag

    Sep 15, 2011
    Melb Australia
    Are you sure the RFE is the right tool for the job? I only ask as the HPF cuts off up to 190 Hz. This might be perfect for you but what if you need to go higher?
    Does the BL have anything where you rehearse that offers more flexibility?
     
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  4. Zbysek

    Zbysek

    Mar 23, 2017
    Czech Republic
    I am not sure-we will see.

    What I know is that I don't want to distort only high mids - the sound in my head has lower frequencies (I mean mids or lower mids) distorted as well.

    If 190Hz proves to be too low cut-off frequency (which I admit is possible based on suggestions made by some posters in this thread), the sound tech can easily set the HPF on the drive channel even higher using our band's digital mixer. That's one of the advantages of sending two separate signals to the board - the sound tech can tailor the drive channel without affecting the clean channel...and vice-versa.

    Another solution which I want to try is to use the TC Spark boost pedal with the voice switch in "Mid" position in front of Space Heater preamp. That way it will boost mid frequencies going into the tube preamp. Therefore, the signal coming out of the tube preamp will be mid-heavy already (there will be relatively low content of bass frequencies). If I then cut anything below 190Hz, I expect it to probably work fine for the purposes of blending with the clean signal.

    Btw. let's not forget that the cut-off frequency is already -3db. So the slope starts even higher... In other words, HPF set at 190Hz will start to attenuate probably somewhere between 250-350 Hz...(depending on the slope).

    In addition, I can use the semi-parametric mids on the RFE pedal (the two white knobs in the centre) to further boost the desired frequency range.

    To sum it up, I expect the RFE pedal to work fine in this setup.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2022
  5. sprag

    sprag

    Sep 15, 2011
    Melb Australia
    Maybe I'm reading the specs wrong, or maybe there is more info elsewhere.
    From the broughton site I see the HPF section working as follows
    - filter slope is permanently fixed at -12dB per octave
    - setting the resonance control to -3dB only cuts off any resonance peak at the filters selected frequency.

    Either way, I'd give full control to the sound tech as
    1. They can make adjustments as you're playing which means less time to find the right frequencies
    2. It frees up the broughton to use as an effect.
     
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  6. Zbysek

    Zbysek

    Mar 23, 2017
    Czech Republic
    I appreciate your comments. They help me to organize my thoughts.

    I have no other use for the RFE - so "freeing" the pedal would not help me.

    Yes, I want to give the sound tech certain level of control...at the same time I want to make his work as easy as possible. Let's face it: bass guitar is low on the sound tech's priority list during live shows. He needs to focus on vocals and lead instrument above all. Therefore, I want to take the approach suggested by MDBass in his posts No. 18 in this thread "give him what he needs and nothing he doesn't". I am sure our sound tech will not need frequencies below 190Hz and above 5kHz on the drive channel.

    The following quotation is important for understanding how RFE woks: "The resonance of the filters ranges from -3dB all the way up to +15dB. The -3dB setting is what you would expect from a standard, non-resonant filter."

    In other words: if I set the resonance control of the HPF side (top left knob) at -3db (fully CCW), the RFE works as a standard high pass filter. That's how I will use it. So let's not worry about the resonance function, as it seems to be confusing things for you.

    The -12db/octave information describes the steepnes of the slope of attenuation.

    The following should help you understand the cutoff frequency and slope:

    https://audiouniversityonline.com/audio-high-pass-filters/

    This is what I meant when stating that the filter might start attenuating between 250 and 350 Hz: "Often the cutoff frequency is the point at which the filter attenuates by -3dB. Thus, the filter might actually begin at a higher frequency than stated by the cutoff adjustment."
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2022
  7. sprag

    sprag

    Sep 15, 2011
    Melb Australia
    My bad, I thought your comment regarding -3dB was referring to where you had the resonance knob set.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2022
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  8. Zbysek

    Zbysek

    Mar 23, 2017
    Czech Republic
    Well, it is related. When the resonance control is set at -3db and the other control at 190Hz it means that 190Hz frequency is already attenuated by 3db.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2022
  9. Zbysek

    Zbysek

    Mar 23, 2017
    Czech Republic
    Thank you, that's helpful information.

    Understandable. That is generaly my approach too. However, after a rather long time we have a dedicated soundtech for this particular band-so I want to enjoy the advantages which it brings to us.

    I knew that the argument with the wireless will come - sooner or later ...:)

    I know that my signal chain is not purely analog. Still, I try to keep it analog as much as possible. I am glad that you understand the preference...
     
  10. Zbysek

    Zbysek

    Mar 23, 2017
    Czech Republic
    I enjoy experimenting...:)
     
  11. Windreaper

    Windreaper

    Mar 9, 2008
    It would be helpful to post some kind of tone reference with questions like these, though, as the filter corner frequencies depend on the desired tone.

    It's trivial for your sound guy to apply a band-pass filter to the dirt and scoop some mids out of your clean signal to compensate, wouldn't worry about it.

    The range of your filter pedal is not sufficient to process the dirt (you generally want to cut lows much higher than 190Hz), but it is sufficient to shape the signal before hitting the dirt pedal. Try putting the filter before the dirt, and set the HPF to 190Hz (-3dB), results in a much cleaner distortion. You can then play with the LPF to control how much high-end content hits the distortion pedal. Also try applying a boost to the mid control, and sweep through the range to find frequencies you like/dislike (at which point, cut said frequency).
     
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  12. Zbysek

    Zbysek

    Mar 23, 2017
    Czech Republic
    My original plan was to put RFE after the dirt pedals...but I may try putting it in front of them. What do you mean by "cleaner distorton"?

    Yeah, I know, I would love to but I don't have any...just the sound in my head.
     
  13. Windreaper

    Windreaper

    Mar 9, 2008
    It's similar to guitarists using the Tube Screamer with gain at zero to tighten up high-gain amps. Prevents the low end of your signal from saturating the drive, resulting in less energy in the "mud area" - tighter distortion with more bite. The video below is for guitar, but explains the concept.

     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2022
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  14. Zbysek

    Zbysek

    Mar 23, 2017
    Czech Republic
    Thank you for the explanation. All clear.

    I am hoping that, in my setup, the TC Spark with the voice switch in the "Mid" position will play similar role to tube screamer. But I will try your suggestion and will see which setup I like better.
     
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  15. sunbeast

    sunbeast Supporting Member

    Jul 19, 2006
    Denver, CO
    With the Omnilooper I mentioned earlier there is a switch to move the filter on each FX loop before or after the loop. In most cases I found I prefer putting the high-pass filter in front of both drive and modulation pedals- with drives it gives a tighter feel/sound and decreases the gain level while with modulation pedals it cleans up mud and can make the modulation movement “pop” a lot more if you send it less bass. The filters on the RFE aren’t very dramatic, so I’d imaging putting it before the drive would make the effect more noticeable.
     
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  16. I’ve done similar setups before with a 4-band distortion in one path, only driving mids. Split with a radial aby then 2nd clean path to 2nd amp. These days I mix it much better with parallel channels in a source audio ultrawave. You can do what you ask for in it, clean path in ch1, distorted mids in ch2. Then let those two channels go to the desk.
     
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  17. Zbysek

    Zbysek

    Mar 23, 2017
    Czech Republic
    What do you mean by 4-band distortion?
     
  18. It’s a pedal from a swedish company called dpw mög. I would just distort the low mids and hi mids on it. Then leave bass and treble at zero.
     
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  19. Zbysek

    Zbysek

    Mar 23, 2017
    Czech Republic
    Looks cooool!
     
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  20. Nashrakh

    Nashrakh

    Aug 16, 2008
    Hamburg, Germany
    Sorry to go on a tangent, but I see you have an octave pedal on your board. Have you tried using that (in a 50/50 mix of clean and octave down) instead of a drive (and then, play an octave up) and if so, what did you think of it? Bit of a scenario opposite to yours, but I like that sound to fill out the hole I leave behind when I take a solo myself. I'd like to know if it would also work the other way around, but I never get to play in trios.
     
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