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DIY 2 x 115s

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by 3rdcurve, Nov 27, 2018.


  1. 3rdcurve

    3rdcurve Supporting Member

    Dec 26, 2008
    Sullivan, MO
    Hello fellow talkers of bass! After MUCH deliberation, I have decided to move forward with my DIY 2x15 build. Here are the details I have nailed down.

    1. It will use two Celestion Pulse 15s. They have ferrite magnets, but still come in at under 11 lbs each. Low Fs, decent Xmax, and good power handling, for $120 each.

    2. I will be keeping the cab as compact as possible without killing the lowend. My new project is still in the “ROCK” vein, but has roots in blues and classic country. I am looking for a nice thick lowend that can still punch. Listening to some SRV, Tommy Shannon’s recorded tone is a goal.

    3. The finish will be nice. Mahogany stained birch, with a oil or poly finish and black hardware. Grill is yet TBD.

    The amp will be my beloved Quilter BB800, and I would like the cab to be able to handle the full brunt of that little monster.

    I have a sealed 810 (127lbs) and a Barefaced 210 (31 lbs). I would like to split the difference in both weight and output. Technically, I would like to keep the cab under 60lbs if possible. (With 22lbs of speakers it probably unlikely)

    So, my WinISD keeps crashing and I have been using Speaker box lite on my phone. Not sure how accurate it is, but I have some ideas of where my limits are size wise. One cool thing about these particular drivers, is that they are suitable for both sealed and vented enclosures.

    So option 1:

    A sealed 215 with dimensions mimicking that of a double bagend 15 stack (which I had years ago and really liked). 36Hx18Wx15D or there abouts. Would have around 3.8 cu.ft. Net internal volume, and an F3 of 71Hz with a slow roll off. I love the feel sealed cabs, but normally need to boost the lows a bit to get me where I need to be.

    And option 2:

    A ported cab with dimensions only slightly larger than the sealed cab with dimensions of 38Hx20Wx15D giving an net internal volume of around 4.2 cu.ft. Using 3 - 4” precision ports and tuning to 48 Hz gives me an F3 of 62Hz, a nice 3db bump in the 80-120Hz range, and should hold up ok in a drop D scenario (I only use 4 strings).

    So which will get me to my goal? Sealed, ported, either, neither?

    I’ll put up the driver specs Incase anyone want to check my phone app modeling. (Please do!)
     
    Pbassmanca likes this.
  2. 3rdcurve

    3rdcurve Supporting Member

    Dec 26, 2008
    Sullivan, MO
    12B8E6AA-03E8-430A-B094-D013AA64A4EF.
     
    Pbassmanca and Oatis like this.
  3. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    Which version of WinISD was giving you problems?
     
    Pbassmanca and Stumbo like this.
  4. Stumbo

    Stumbo Wherever you go, there you are. Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 11, 2008
    the Cali Intergalctic Mind Space
    Song Surgeon slow downer software- full 4 hour demo
    Matching an 800w amp to speakers rated for 800w total won't get you to "full brunt".

    Speakers rated closer to 1600w and much higher xmax will get you closer to that goal.
     
  5. JimChjones

    JimChjones

    Aug 6, 2017
    SE England
    I'm not sure you'll like the 3db hump. Recently made a celestion based 1*10 for a mate and he ended up sealing the ports because there was too much boom even with a level plot.
    I'm now of the opinion that a shallow slope in the chart from about 100hz may be no bad thing even if using ports to extend the lower end.
    It would be interesting to see plots for commercial cabs to understand what theoretical figures they've found most musical in development.
    Maybe ported cabs are best associated with an adjustable high pass, whether on amp or external?
     
    Pbassmanca likes this.
  6. beans-on-toast

    beans-on-toast Supporting Member

    Aug 7, 2008
    Ported if you will be pushing the cab hard. With weight being an issue, consider two 115 cabs.
     
    Pbassmanca likes this.
  7. 3rdcurve

    3rdcurve Supporting Member

    Dec 26, 2008
    Sullivan, MO
    This is a possibility. Revsound uses the neo version, and users are able to run 800 watt heads flat out. The glowing reviews and sound clips are what got me to give Celestion a shot. I owned a pair of bagends in the past, their speakers were rated at 300 watts with a smaller voice coil and a much smaller xmax. I ran them with a Streamliner 900. I don’t necessarily need to be able to dime everything on the amp, just looking for more clean headroom than I am getting with the 210.


    Possibly. I do have a HP/LP filter to help tame the boom if needed.

    That is a possibility, but is single cabs are much over 35lbs I would rather have a single cab on wheels.
     
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  8. beans-on-toast

    beans-on-toast Supporting Member

    Aug 7, 2008
    saabfender, Pbassmanca and Stumbo like this.
  9. 3rdcurve

    3rdcurve Supporting Member

    Dec 26, 2008
    Sullivan, MO
    Yup, read that thread several times. I don’t want to go wider than 20-21” due to the knuckle busting on doorways. Willing to go a bit taller though. I have had both single and dual 15PR400 loaded cabs, and they were a bit blurry and soft in the low end. The eminence 3015 wasn’t very warm sounding. This is what has me going back to non-neo drivers, I’m looking for the bag end punch with a bigger lowend.
     
    Pbassmanca and beans-on-toast like this.
  10. beans-on-toast

    beans-on-toast Supporting Member

    Aug 7, 2008
    All complicated by amp power and EQ that factor in when it comes to blurry or soft sounding.

    It isn’t like you haven’t been trying to fulfill your needs.

    Consider auditioning an Ampeg SVT-212AV if you can. It might turn you on to using twelves in your design.
     
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  11. 3rdcurve

    3rdcurve Supporting Member

    Dec 26, 2008
    Sullivan, MO
    I’m not opposed to 12s. I had a Berg CN212 that was nice, just didn’t hit the sweet spot for me. I went down a multi-year 6 cab MAS trip after that. Tried a Baer ML112 around the time of the CN212 as well but couldn’t warm up to it.

    I had a pair of Acme flatwound 12s that dang near hit the spot, but damned if they weren’t about the ugliest cabs on the planet.

    Tried talking Andy into selling me 3 of his drivers so I could build something that appealed to my eyes a bit more, but no dice.
     
    Pbassmanca and beans-on-toast like this.
  12. JRA

    JRA my words = opinion Supporting Member

    although there are plenty of exceptions:
    punch = sealed.
    thick low end = ported.

    i think you are headed for some compromise --- which might not be a bad thing! good luck! :thumbsup:
     
    saabfender, Pbassmanca and 3rdcurve like this.
  13. 3rdcurve

    3rdcurve Supporting Member

    Dec 26, 2008
    Sullivan, MO
    0.7.0.950
     
  14. Passinwind

    Passinwind I know nothing. Commercial User

    Dec 3, 2003
    Columbia River Gorge, WA.
    Owner/Designer &Toaster Tech Passinwind Electronics
    Interesting, that's the only version that hasn't ever caused me problems on later versions of Windows. But in any case, WinISD is well past its shelf life IMHO.

    Watching your thread with interest, I have some 100 watt tube amp builds coming up and a 2 x 15 is more than likely going to be part of the equation.
     
    Pbassmanca and 3rdcurve like this.
  15. micguy

    micguy

    May 17, 2011
    I wouldn’t ever build a 215 cabinet at this point - I’d make 2 boxes. If you want to move them as one lump, you can put latches on them to do that, and you’ll still have the option to separate them when you want.

    115 boxes are easier to brace - smaller panels. They’ll sound better than a 215.
     
    Pbassmanca and Omega Monkey like this.
  16. nilorius

    nilorius

    Oct 27, 2016
    Riga - Latvia
    And you really believe that Celestion will give you a 15' speaker 400W for 120$ ??? If you do, then better build 2 cabs 115'.
     
  17. JimChjones

    JimChjones

    Aug 6, 2017
    SE England
    I suppose the normal discouragement against mixing drivers would apply equally to building one sealed and one ported1*15? If the compromise worked that would be ideal, and if one were demonstrably right and the other wrong then only one cab to replace/rebuild.
     
  18. agedhorse

    agedhorse Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Generally mixing these 2 alignments will create a significant dip (and other anomalies) in the low to low mid area. The phase response, even for identical drivers, can be a real challenge.
     
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  19. JimChjones

    JimChjones

    Aug 6, 2017
    SE England
    I feared so...
     
  20. rogypop

    rogypop

    Jan 10, 2009
    Croatia
    Maybe something as simple as 2x eminence beta 15 in 120 liter sealed cab could to the trick.
     
    gitfiddl likes this.

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