DIY Vertical 4x10" + 1x15" bass cab

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by BoogieZK, Jun 24, 2020.

  1. BoogieZK


    Sep 28, 2008
    Toulouse, France
    Hello everyone,

    I know, i know another diy thread but this time! A vertical cabinet.

    Do you think this design has a chance to live? Is viable?
    Ports not represented because not calculated at this time.

    So a 4x10" front firing with a top horn and a 15" speaker firing on the side for the drummer.
    Bringing down the impedance to 4ohms and total power handling to 900Wrms.
    1.25m x 0.6m x 0.35m approx.

    Reason is I built a 15" speaker box with already but is not enough sensitive.
    And i have a budget 4x10" in my rehearsal room and combining the two cabs is something i had in mind.
    Thank's in advance.
  2. That 15 will make this a very deep box.
    With the right speakers and porting design just the Vertical 4x10 should be enough for most situations and easier to handle.
    westrock and birminghambass like this.
  3. abarson


    Nov 6, 2003
    Santa Cruz
    I think it will be very difficult to handle as there's no good center of gravity. You have weight on two axes and nowhere to put appropriate handles. It's going to be a heavy cumbersome box, or you just never move it.

    Adding ports is going to make this a very large cabinet as well. Depending on the 10" speakers, they might be happy in a sealed enclosure. I have no idea how it will sound if the lower two 10" speakers are up against the 15" chamber while the upper two 10" speakers are in "open space" but it doesn't look right.

    I think the crossover will be a challenge as well.

    While I always appreciate someone willing to rethink the box, in this case I don't believe the design has merit. Merely throwing various speakers into some unique enclosure is rarely a recipe for success.

    I'm curious: how did you design the cabinet for your previous standalone 15" speaker? Knowing how to get all the sensitivity possible out of a speaker is a matter of cabinet design.
    BassmanPaul likes this.
  4. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Inactive

    Or a pair of 2x10s in a vertical stack is even easier. :)
  5. BoogieZK


    Sep 28, 2008
    Toulouse, France
    On this design, wheels and handles goes on the opposite side of the 15".

    4x10" part is 170 l and 1x15 is 100 l.

    And my stand alone 15 is a kappa pro 15 lf2 based on the largest suggested box by eminence.
    It was a beginner mistake.
  6. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Inactive

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    I would think the math .... all the math.... would be easier if that 15" speaker were replaced by two 10" speakers. Or, you could make it a vertical 410 and simply turn one driver toward the drummer. (Take your pick.) The simplest solution would be to grab two 210 cabs and turn the bottom one toward the drummer.

    The size of your drivers, and trying to get them into one cab, seem to be unnecessary complications. Never mind that if you get this thing built and don't like the results you have dumped a lot of time, effort, and money into a failed project.
    lomo likes this.
  7. BoogieZK


    Sep 28, 2008
    Toulouse, France
    That's why i'm consulting wises bass players here.

    I'll be happy with a vertical 4x10 but i'll have to build another box for the 15 anyway because i'm not happy with the actual box i built.
  8. BassmanPaul

    BassmanPaul Inactive

    No matter how popular, a 4x10 is a bad pairing with a 1x15 which has the audio output of about a 2x10.

    Why do you want to add a 15 anyway? What are you expecting it to do for you?
    BoogieZK and Jim Carr like this.
  9. Redbrangus

    Redbrangus Supporting Member

    Nov 19, 2018
    Under The X In Texas
    Aside from the other issues...what happens if you have to set up on the other side of the drummer?

    I'd consider at least separating the 15 from the 10's
    Jim Carr and mikewalker like this.
  10. JimChjones


    Aug 6, 2017
    SE England
    I can see the appeal of a cabinet that takes up relatively small stage real estate compared to a 4x10 plus a wedge for the drummer, but it might be an adventure too far. Have you considered seeing whether you could juggle a pair of vertical 2x10s and a 1x15 so they have the same square cross section viewed from above, thus enabling you to stack all 3 cabs vertically either facing forward or with one at 90degrees? It would give you a lot more scope to experiment with speaker combinations, plus less load in for small venues.

    Personally I would worry about interactions between the drivers at 90 degrees too each other. And while I don't know enough about the subtleties of enclosure design to make too many pronouncements, I am not at all sure about having two drivers very close to a wall, and two with free space.
    Bassdirty, BoogieZK and Omega Monkey like this.
  11. Omega Monkey

    Omega Monkey

    Mar 8, 2015
    If those drawings are to scale, the size is all wrong. The box for the 15 is minuscule. The box for the 4 10s is about half what it probably should be. That's before adding ports.

    Then, electrically, presumably you want to cross over the 10s and leave the 15 for the lows. But even a modest crossover around 100 Hz or so means you probably don't need 4 10s to match up to the 15. So 2 might be better. So now you're looking at a 15 and 2x10 cab which is a little more manageable.

    As mentioned, the cab only works if you always set up the same way in relation to the drummer. And lows are omnidirectional past a certain point any way. So I don't think pointing the 15 to the side is a great idea. Something "horn loaded" or similar to some of the schroeder cabs (but facing foward, underneat the 2 2 10s and a tweeter). I'm not sure what getting everything to match up phase wise would entail though.

    Another experiment could be to put a 10 and tweeter on 3 of the 4 vertical faces of the cab. That way one is facing forward, one is facing left, and one is facing right. There are some AudioKinesis cabs that have a similar concept (just with tweeters though I think). But depending on where you crossover and the dimensions of the cab, that could certainly still bring about phase/timing issues. Might be cool though if you get it right. It kind of turns the dispersion problem on it's head by just changing what "on axis" is.

    On a semi-related note, I do think it would be interesting to see someone make a 360 cab. Like maybe 6 10s, all around at 60 degree angles to each other, forming a hexagonal cab, each one with a tweeter above it, or maybe there are even 12 tweeters, on separate baffles 120 degrees apart. So you'll have this sort of round-ish cab, radiating in all directions, and then maybe you have like 4 down firing 15s. Just spitballing.
    BoogieZK and mikewalker like this.
  12. walterw

    walterw Supportive Fender Commercial User

    Feb 20, 2009
    this is not the worst idea i've ever seen but it looks just like it
    knigel and rocu like this.
  13. Killing Floor

    Killing Floor Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2020
    Austin, TX
    Bassdirty, MCF, mikewalker and 2 others like this.
  14. JeezyMcNuggles

    JeezyMcNuggles Supporting Member

    Feb 23, 2018
    Santa Maria, CA
    I suck, but nobody really notices
    You wouldn't have to build another box for the 15, just build it internally before attaching the back. It'll be a separate cab, with its own dimensions specifically for that speaker. Just, inside the same cab. Then, you can slant the 410 box up and in so its not so dang fat for no reason. It can be done. But, for wiring and weight purposes, why not just go with three tens and a fifteen? 3 tens should be more than enough.
  15. Coolhandjjl


    Oct 13, 2010
    Skip the 15”.
    BoogieZK likes this.
  16. abarson


    Nov 6, 2003
    Santa Cruz
    Here's an idea that might work:
    1. Skip the 15". Design a better box just for it. It is solely a subwoofer.
    2. Design your cab for 3 x 10" forward-firing and one 10" rear-firing. Your drummer will get the advantage of the rear-mounted sound source. Of course, the general idea is from the Bergantino HG410, but you will need to design it with your specific speaker parameters. I will say that this design is rather advanced.
    agedhorse and BoogieZK like this.
  17. walterw

    walterw Supportive Fender Commercial User

    Feb 20, 2009
    better yet, let the drummer worry about his own monitor situation while you worry about yours

    we've reached the age where a $600 digital mixer lets everybody in the band have their own monitor mix and adjust it wirelessly with their phones, the era of trying to shoestring-rig monitoring for other players off your amp is kind of over.
  18. bwoodman

    bwoodman Supporting Member

    Exact - and face the bottom cab towards the drummer / top cab facing audience - I used to do this all the time when I had a pair of 210 cabs. I made the switch to a pair of 112's about 10 years ago. IMO you have to look at modular set-ups for ease of moving them around. That vertical 410 + 15 huge box will not be much fun to cart around.
    BoogieZK likes this.
  19. BoogieZK


    Sep 28, 2008
    Toulouse, France
    Ok so on my design, the 15" is in its own box.
    Total volume is 270l, 100l for the 15" and 170l for the 10"s.

    Sensitivity on the 4x10" is 102dB (96dB by 10") and the 15" is 98dB.

    I read all answers and i understand it is not a great idea, considering phase issues, weight, transport.

    Maybe i'll just build a smaller 15" box with the same foot print as the 4x10.
    The vertical 4x10" without 15" is a sexy idea but i don't know how it will behave.
  20. JimChjones


    Aug 6, 2017
    SE England
    Much like a square 4x10, but better as regards sound distribution into the room. In the dim and distant past the 4x10 column was a normal PA rig.
    abarson and yodedude2 like this.