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Do the crime, the plead Insanity!

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by Fire-Starter, May 5, 2006.

  1. Fire-Starter


    Aug 11, 2002
    This has troubled me for some time now, how can anyone who plots to do evil, and gets caught by the law, all of a sudden plead Insanity? You mean to tell me that a person is can be sane enough to plot and carry out a crime, but when caught, plead Insanity, and get away with it. There was an issue here where I live where a young man held up a person in there home, and was caught, now He is trying to claim bi-polar and Insanity??? I am not saying these people do not exist, and My heart goes out to anyone who struggles with such issues, but I am sure having a hard time believing the number of people who seem to use the Insanity plea for a defense and get away with it.

    1:At what point does a person become insane in the eyes of the court after a crime is commited.

    2:what is to stop ANYONE, from pleading Insanity if they decide to break the law and get caught?
  2. SlavaF


    Jul 31, 2002
    Edmonton AB
    well, maybe the person only went insane after committing the crime...

    ever think of that?:bag:

  3. You think thats bad? over here a couple days ago (maybe even yesterday?), a man went up to a pregnant woman and stabbed her repeatedly, killing her and the twins she was carrying, now they are saying he is apparently mental (well duh if he did that!)

    And is getting put in an institution instead of prison apparently :scowl:
  4. SBassman


    Jun 8, 2003
    Northeast, US
    Me too.

    And, in my book, when we're talking about things like murder, I want to say - "yeah, sure, insane, if that's what you want to call it - but Everybody who does that is a little nuts, so, so what - they still get prosecuted."

    Let's face it - there's this Leap an individual has to take from an everyday person - to someone who would Actually Kill another human being - that, obviously Something is a little wrong. But that doesn't disqualify these people from prosecution.
  5. wel, with insanity, you don't get off scott free, you just go to an institution for a few years, and during that time you just act sane, and they let you go on good behavior...that is what is called playing the system...it is pretty stupid, but if the psychiatrist is any good, they would be able to tell if the guy was lying about insanity...
  6. Kay... You get off on insanity if defense can prove you didn't know that what you were doing was wrong. It is extremely rare that anyone actually wins with an insanity plea.

    It's not playing the system, it's fiction. There's no such thing as good behaviour in an asylum for the criminally insane. Anyone who thinks they're clever for pleading insane probably IS insane, because they've sentenced themselves to life in an insane asylum.

    And saying that there's something wrong with anyone who'd kill another human being is incredibly pious, ethnocentric and narrow minded. In your circle that may be a noble statement, but it doesn't work in the real world.
  7. Ericman197


    Feb 23, 2004
    The acceptance of the insanity plea is a result of the Judaochristian influence on our government.

    Personally, I think that if someone is TRULY insane, they should be put to death. It is not their fault, but if such a person cannot be reformed, why put them in jail? On the other hand, someone who is not insane could would have a far greater potential for reform.

    That said, anyone who kills someone or commits any serious crime (exceptions for self defense and manslaughter) is probably insane by definition, so this is a moot point.
  8. I am not sure about the judaochristian influence in the acceptance of the insanity plea, but i agree with that last statement...at the risk of any names that sal calls me, i think that if someone has a clear intent on killing someone and goes through with it, there is something wrong with them...like eric said, killers are probably insane anyways...i say we lock them away whether they were there mentally or not...
  9. Akami

    Akami Four on the floor

    Mar 6, 2005
    There's definitely something wrong with killing someone especially in the context in which it was meant, which is called murder and for someone to act as an apologist for such scum, not to mention making written attacks on those who would state the obvious has obviously got some issues.

    Pious, ethnocentric and narrow minded. :eyebrow:
  10. What are the major issues with sending a truly insane person to prison? They're watched over anyways so hopefully nothing majorly wrong happens....But I don't know much about life in a prison, so hopefully someone can chime in here.

    Assuming most people who plead insanity are looking for a way out and not too insane to survive prison, wouldn't it be better to accidentally lock up one real insane person for every thirty that aren't, versus sending them all to a mental institution? This is assuming the numbers are of that ration, which could or could not be.

    Also, an institution is for those too insane to handle prison, correct? Possibly help them with their situation and provide care. Surely some people classified as insane could handle prison? If you are able to plead your case in court and be around other humans, and can survive social situations, why can't you make due in prison? It's not meant to be easy or fun, but unless the guy is at his court date ripping off his clothes and hanging from the walls.... he may be able to handle prison.
  11. Nick man

    Nick man

    Apr 7, 2002
    Tampa Bay
    If you commit a crime chances are you arent right in the head.

    That really shouldnt matter though. You are still a danger to society and thus should be removed from it to protect the innocent.
  12. trog


    Nov 8, 2003
    "Mad, not bad" - A quote my grandmother is very fond of using. She was a probation officer for ~40 years, and insists that the vast majority of murderers she dealt with were insane. I'm not talking about specific mental disorders; they were just plain loopy.

    It was the crazy ones that she could change. They weren't born killers, unlike those who killed coldly, knowing the full extent of their actions.

    Another interesting point she makes is that it is the quiet, 'well-behaved' prisoners that cause the most trouble when they leave. The ones that caused a rucus tended to want to change more readily - after all, she notes, it is fairly normal to want to cause a little disturbance when you're locked up behind bars.
  13. It's Common Misconception Time!!:D:D:D

    These are some stats that I got in my Judicial Process class last term:

    Of all violent criminal cases, only about 18% of defendants try for the insanity plea. Of these, LESS THAN 5% are acquitted. And of those acquitted, the vast majority (I was not furnished with a percantage) are still sent to an instiution. The majority of those who plead not guilty by reason of insanity are usually found guilty anyway. "Playing the system" is much harder now than it used to be, say, 30 years ago.

    Most insanity defenses are still brought before a psychiatrist or sent to a mental institution for evaluation, but are still incarcerated for their crimes.

    The reason that most people think the insanity defense is a "cop out" is that it's over-dramatized in the media. Most insanity defenses are used during murder trials, and murder trials usually attract a fair amount of attenion. The most recent local one was a few weeks ago where an individual walked into a Vancouver McDonalds and stabbed a 17-year-old to death. Now, he IS insane. He has paranoid schizophrenia, and should be in an institution. But the local dentist who stabbed his wife 18 times with a pair of scissors, and claimed temporary insanity, is now in jail for a very long time. A life sentance, if I remember correctly.

    Oh, and all those figures are from the FBI crime statistic database as of 2004. And my Judicial Process text book, copyright 2004.

    Rock on
  14. markjazzbassist

    markjazzbassist Supporting Member

    Apr 19, 2005
    Cleveland, OH


    great point. i am studying psychology (undergrad) and i will also add that a well-trained psychologist can easily pick out people who are "acting" insane. I have read numerous journals and articles on this and the post above is right on. WE think it goes on more than it really does because of the media.
  15. markjazzbassist

    markjazzbassist Supporting Member

    Apr 19, 2005
    Cleveland, OH

    i think your logic is very flawed. The problem with this is the topic of relativity. In our culture a schizophrenic person is considered severely mentally ill, whereas in the East (china, india, japan, etc.) they would be considered spiritual and highly enlightened.

    You also need to remove the stigma that having a mental illness is a bad thing. When you have a cold, you go to the Doctor. When you have a mental issue, you see a psychologist or psychiatrist. Over 50% of Americans have reported at least one instance of mental illness in their life. Add another 15% for the people that didn't report (most likely because they have a mental illness and don't want to report it because of the stigma) their illness. Those stats are from a journal article in the APA (American Psychological Association) Journal from a month or two ago.
  16. What's you're definition of insane? Schizophrenic? That's treatable. With the right medications and counseling, they can become functional members of society. And they aren't evil. The guy who stabbed that teenager knows what he did, and feels terrible about it.

    But what about people like Bundy, Gacy, or Dahmer? Those guys had no diagnose mental illness. But they killed many, many people. Is it now a sign of insanity to simply have no moral center?

    Rock on
  17. markjazzbassist

    markjazzbassist Supporting Member

    Apr 19, 2005
    Cleveland, OH

    actually there is a disorder called Antisocial Personality Disorder which is probably what Bundy and the rest had. A very simple definition is, A disorder characterized by a lack of anxiety or guilt which causes individuals to engage in antisocial behaviors. Antisocial meaning against societal norms. Hope this helps a little.

    ps. i dig your signature about travolta. every since i was young my pops always has been ripping on that guy called him john revolta and such. good times.
  18. We just studied Bundy in my Criminology class. And I'm not sure he could be diagnosed as Antisocial, because he was able to demonstrate some form of guilt for some smaller transgressions. But he never felt guilt for his murders. Sick and twisted individual.

    And my John Travolta comment has to do with him causing Disco. If it wasn't for him, Saturday Night Fever wouldn't have come out, and disco wouldn't have taken off like it did.

    Rock on
  19. Diggler


    Mar 3, 2005
    Western PA
    I think an individual should be judged by his actions, not mental state. If you unjustly kill someone, you get prosecuted and sentenced based on what you did, not what was going through your mind. Of course, premeditated versus non-premeditated would be different crimes, as they are now.

    Of course, this also does away with the fallacy of 'hate crime,' since we'd be keeping the judicial system from determining motive. Which is fine with me. I don't care if the victim is white or black; if the perp was a racist or insane or just needed money; if the person was killed for a few bucks in his wallet or because the perp didn't like the victim's demographic. In a murder someone is dead and the person who did it needs to pay.

    All murders are hate crimes, and insanity shouldn't count. So you were picked on as a child and you became psychotic? Too bad. You should have dealt with it properly; next stop, the one-way Needle Express.
  20. Thor

    Thor Gold Supporting Member In Memoriam

    Boy, I read this whole post hoping you were going to tell us
    about your loopy cellmate last weekend who looked like Jack Nicholson
    in The Shining and nicknamed you 'Sally'.

    What a letdown. :rolleyes:

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