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Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by burk48237, Sep 1, 2005.

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  1. burk48237

    burk48237 Supporting Member

    Nov 22, 2004
    Oak Park, MI
    Watching the events in NO, and remembering the blackout in Detroit a few years ago. I'm wondering how many hear have some kind of survival supplies. I keep A two week supply of food and 10 gallons of water, haven't sprung for the generator. Also being a backpacker/outdoors type I have all kinds of camping gear and outdoor ready clothing. Also I have a few firearms and sufficient ammo. I actually started storing up stuff for Y2k, which I viewed with skepticism, But I figured the freeze dried food I could use backpacking too. NO is beginning to look like a bad post apocalypse movie and my prayers are with them, the situation is unprecedented for any large modern city as far as I can remember and reminds me somewhat of the LA riots. I'm not asking for political opinions or Gun control philosophies. But I remember the Zombie preparation thread, this is close to the real thing. Your thoughts?
  2. We left for a buddy's house west side of the state, he still had power. Otherwise we would have been in a spot of trouble. Had water, we filled up immediately after the power outage. I knew any pumps would fail, we were dependent on residual pressure in the lines. Once pressure dropped, contamination gets into the water, then eventually you don't get any water either.... Food we didn't have much of, smallish freezer would keep us going a little while. Guns/ammo we did have. Grillmaster with plenty of propane: check.

    But really, couldn't have survivied more than a few days to maybe a week tops. Don't think anyone could last long enough to wait out that stuff down there.

    And I do have scuba gear in the house, so I can dive down to my 2nd story bedroom to retreive the guns/ammo and the first floor to get the frozen food. The containers would all be contaminated though, no way to wash them off, or cook the food with everything underwater. Not sure if the grill floats, or if it would not tip over trying to grill stuff on the roof.

    I think the "preparedness" think is overrated. Nothign those people in NO could have done would have made a bit of difference.

  3. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Terrific Twister

    Apr 12, 2001
    Olympia, WA
    I disagree. Part of the reason there is always a huge demand for shelters is because of the people who ignore evacuation warnings, and neglect to prepare themselves for living without running water/electricity/heat for a few days.

    My family is ready. We have supplies, and an escape plan from the house.

    We live in an area that is threatened by earthquakes, so we have taken all measures to prevent as much damage as we can to our home and belongings. Of course, if the "big one" really does come, none of the "earthquake proofing" I have done will do squat.

  4. vegaas


    Nov 6, 2001
    A lot of those people in New Orleans ignored the evacuation warnings because they had no place to go, and no money to put themselves up anyplace. Hence the mess at the Superdome and the Convention Center. It is easy to think they should have been more prepared, until you put yourself in their positions.
  5. I do, it's called Playboy.
  6. Ericman197


    Feb 23, 2004
    It's funny you bring this up. Just a week ago or so I was called crazy for stocking up on medications and trade goods. And weeks before that, and before that and before that ;) That's ok though, it's a nothing investment. Here's what I have:

    1. Weapons: Notice how everyone is starting to kill eachother in New Orleans? It'll only get worse before it gets better. Living in a very 'red' pocket of New Jersey, my town is fully prepared to hold back the hordes from New York City in case terrorists attack, a natural disaster hits or whatever. We have two AR15 assault rifles, an M17S Bullpup, a 12 gauge shotgun and a 9MM handgun. I recommend having at least one tactical long range type of gun like an AR15/M17S. An AR15 is especially good for this purpose because it looks like an M16. I don't want to shoot someone, I just want to scare them. A shotgun is also useful because it can hold back a HUGE crowd of people without killing. My goal isn't to kill anyone; I just want to scare them off. The prospect or act of being hit by buckshot is enough to deter most people.

    2. Medications: My parents are both doctors so it's no problem having supplies of Cipro (the 'Anthrax magic drug'), other antibiotics, first aid supplies, etc. Our medicine cabinet is filled with crap.

    3. Essentials: We have a few hundred gallons of water and a food supply of a few months. This is an extremely cheap way of preparing: you can buy rice by the 50lb. bag at Costco for about $0.20/pound. If you have the room for it, there's no reason NOT to have hundreds of cans of food: we use ours as time goes on, so it's like filling up your gas tank at 1/2 instead of running it until the last drop. The water is slowly cycled over time; the only reason we have so much of it is because Poland Springs delivers more than we actually use. It's good to have water because the supply may become contaminated or diverted in the case of a disaster.

    4. Flashlights, batteries, radios, lanterns, etc. are all useful. I have a few gallons of various fuels (gasoline and biomass) but we don't have a working generator at the moment :(

    5. I have fireworks that can be used as signals or for recreation :smug:

    6. Trade goods: Precious metals, drugs, alcohol and cigarettes are all useful to trade with. Hey, I know it sounds crazy, but my grandparents used these things to survive not so long ago (WWII). If you can afford to buy some gold/diamond jewelery for your wife, it's not such a bad investment: at the worst, you just get 'points,' at best, you can trade them in for food.

    7. Extra dog food :)

    8. Enough wood to barricade all the doors and windows. I don't have it yet, but that's next on my list of things to get. I don't think I'd actually need it, but the next time someone thinks I'm crazy for being prepared, I can also say that I'm prepared for zombie attacks as well ;) It's not a problem though: if you don't have enough wood, use furniture a la Signs and Night of the Living Dead.

    There are probably other important things I didn't mention, but the most important points:

    To survive in any disaster, you must have the ability to survive in your home for a few weeks.

    To survive the aftermath, you must be able to 'hold the fort.'

    Have a backup plan. As 'cool' as it would be to hole up in my 'fort' and hold back the masses, I'd rather just get the hell out. Don't stay at home and fight unless you have to.
  7. pigpen02


    Mar 24, 2002
    Preparedness is very important.

    I work for a residential provider for developmentally disabled children, and wrote our disaster preparedness plan to safely move 36 kids with challenging behaviors, plus an equal # of staff and administration, around the city and out if necessary. Luckily, we have 2 nurses on staff, and feel good about our ability to provide continuous care to some of our more fragile residents.

    Each group home (7 of them) has everything anyone could need: a generator, large stock of gas, batteries, food (at least 2 wks for 6 people per home,) water (same,) medical supplies and medications, radios, long range walkie-talkies, maps, flashlights, tools, pre cut boards for windows, soft mats/pillows/blankets, lots of soap/shampoo/toothpaste etc, 2 have canoes w/ oars, passenger vans, and a great deal more.

    What's happened in N.O. scares me, but more so the stadium conditions: the news has reported rape and violence inside, no running water/sewage, no lights, no ac. our initial shelters, should the homes be unlivable, are local schools. If those become unsafe, the University of South Florida Sun Dome is where we go: a huge room full of mentally ill, developmentally disabled, elderly, and other medically fragile people. I can't imagine trying to keep my gang safe and happy in that environment, under similar conditions. I'll be picking through the meds looking for something good if that happened.

    In terms of both work and family/loved ones, i think communication is essential, and long range walkie-talkies are wonderful, as well as useful for scanning frequencies and possibly contacting police/civil defense/emt. Some have considerable range. Having simple meds and a first aid kit are often over-looked, but every home should have them, regardless of natural disaster risks.

    And i have a 20 gauge pump my grandfather gave me. I'd never want my kids at work to see me toting a rifle around, but i'll be damned if human excrement are looting my charges of their meds, food, or water.
  8. I was thinking the same thing when I first saw the amount of people that stayed to ride out the storm. Why didn't these people just leave?

    I thing we sometimes take what we have for granted.

    The news reported that something like 29% of N.O. is under the poverty level. That's over 140,500 people. (2000 us census 484674)

    I guess you would have to put yourself in their shoes.

    I thought about it myself as a "what if"

    Most of my family lives near by, so what if I had to evacuate my home, and had no money. What would I do. You don't have enough money to fill your tank with gas, and that's if you own a car, and if you could do that, where would you stay? you can't afford a hotel/motel for very long if at all.

    I live in Rhode Island and we have had Hurricanes in the past but have not had a major storm in years. Defiantly not on the level of Katrina. I think our "big one" was in 1938. My mother has a book that has a lot of pictures of the hurricane that put Providence, RI under water. We had a few since then but nothing that has crippled the state for very long.

    A survival plan is a good idea for us but most people are unprepared. A good example of our attitudes in RI is when we get the threat of a blizzard in the winter. Everyone hordes the milk and bread, it's somewhat of a joke in New England but too true. If a snow storm is coming and you go to a super market late in the afternoon, you wont find much if any.

    I'll admit I don't even have the bare essentials in the way of a survival kit, but will change that.
  9. Marlat


    Sep 17, 2002
    London UK
    My survival plan:

    1. Pick up some sort of religious literature;

    2. Take said religious literature to the men's room;

    3. Become familiar with a god of some sort;

    4. Start praying.

    I figure this ensure's 3 things:

    1. if said god exists I will be saved;

    2. if I crap myself im in the right spot; and

    3. if said god is having a day off I may still go to heaven for trying.
  10. If you're catholic the only true part is #2 ;)

    Sinner :D :D

    I am catholic, but apparently do not feel guilty enough so I am screwed as well. :D

    I'll save you a seat. :D
  11. syciprider

    syciprider Banned

    May 27, 2005
    Inland Empire
    I have a few cases of MREs I horse traded for. Also have canned water. I also have a lot of batteries, flashlights and tools. I figure I have to be able to provide for my family for at least three days. I know First Aid (I've battle dressed compound fractures. Nasty) and am pretty good at jury rigging stuff.

    If forced to evac then I'll grab anything I can trade (wife's jewelry :D ), pile the family in my little four banger (for max fuel economy) and go.
  12. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Terrific Twister

    Apr 12, 2001
    Olympia, WA
    Yeah, but at least start walking out of town. It doesn't cost any money to load up your family and start walking. I know it is a LONG walk, but you have to do something. What is the other choice? Stand around in town and die.

    If I was there with my family, and I had zero dollars to my name, I would still pack everyone up and start walking somewhere.

  13. Mike Money

    Mike Money Banned

    Mar 18, 2003
    Bakersfield California
    Avatar Speakers Endorsing Hooligan
    When the big one hits cali, we have 4 4wd vehicles ready to go...

    we have quite a few rifles, pistols, knives, etc... and tons of ammo.

    havent stocked up on water yet... but we have assloads of canned food.
  14. I was talking about this disaster. They won't be able to go home for months. All the preparedness in the world won't let you hold out for that long.

    As for those saying "they should have gotten out of the city". There's devastation for 50 -100 miles from the city. How are they going to walk that far? Can't carry enough food/water for that. What about elderly and children? People in the city who couldn't get out were told to get to the stadium and convention center. They walked there. THey did what they were supposed to.

  15. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Terrific Twister

    Apr 12, 2001
    Olympia, WA
    Yeah, I know what you mean. What else are you going to do though? Keep waiting as people around you are dying every day?

    I'm just thinking that if I were to start heading out of town that my chances of finding someone to help me are alot better than standing in front of some convention center that has turned into a bacteria infested cesspool where violence, anarchy, and vigilantes are starting to take over.

  16. Against Will

    Against Will Supporting Member

    Dec 10, 2003
    Big Sound Central

    It's easy to say that in hindsight, but no one expected things to be this bad. Hurricanes that hit New Orleans in the past were trifles compared to this, they never expected the levee to break, they never expected towns to be completely flooded.
  17. Looking at it now, I'd agree. But at the time, if it were me, and the govt told me where to meet, I'd assume they told me where to go because that's where the food and water were stockpiled. By the time you realize there is none, are you in any shape to make that walk out of town? After going a couple days without food/water?

    After all, the assumption is that they'll be able to get you food/water soon, not that it's going to take a week for the nat Guard to how up with supplies. So your best bet is to stay where the rescue is going to come, not wander off on foot on your own hoping to stumble across what you need. 90 - 100 degree heat, if you collapse out there on your own, you'll die.

    Also if you have old/sick/weak family members, do you leave them behind?

  18. JMX

    JMX Vorsprung durch Technik

    Sep 4, 2000
    Cologne, Germany
    Not to mention no car to drive with. As I understand it, there was no significant public transportation evac.

  19. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Terrific Twister

    Apr 12, 2001
    Olympia, WA
    Will...Randy....I agree. I am talking about now. I see these people just standing around the streets complaining. Pick up your stuff, and start walking...somewhere....anywhere. A quick look around them should reveal the options if they just stay there. I'll take my chances trying to walk than stick around to die of disease or violence. Those who are old/sick/weak wouldn't be able to walk anywhere, so they don't have much of a choice. Those who are younger/healthy/strong have the chance.

    I suppose there is not much a homeless person can do to prepare for natural disasters, but some of those people in the streets of NOLA were in a position to do something to prepare, and chose to ignore or neglect the warnings. I think alot of folks took the stance of "the government will be here with the Red Cross, I'll get my help then".

  20. Vox Populi

    Vox Populi Reggae Loving Honkey

    Jan 27, 2004
    Poulsbo, WA
    I don't think we can criticize New Orleans residents' handling of the situation without being there.

    From what I understand, nobody knew it would be this bad. Like was already mentioned, New Orleans is the poorest city in the nation. Poorer than Detroit. The vast multitude of people had no means of leaving the city. They had no cars, and couldn't pay to fly out.

    It's easy to say "They should have started walking" when you aren't there. Im sure none of them thought it would be this bad, and they would ride it out like Floridians normally do.

    I'm also really kind of angry at the way the news is covering this. They way they'll show level headed white people talking about the need for government help, then show a bunch of black guys breaking open a hotel with chairs, and not tell the whole story other than "they're obviously looters". I guess they haven't been to Mississippi where rich white guys are killing each other over bags of ice. :scowl:

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