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Do you think this setup would be loud enough?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by 43apples, May 20, 2005.


  1. 43apples

    43apples Guest

    Nov 9, 2003
    Hey guys!

    I have a 1978' Peavey Centurion Mark III head, that i bougth last year to use as a PA amplifier. This head was originally designed to use as a bass or guitar amp, and it's rated 2 x 130 watts @ 4 ohm. It's solid state by the way ;).

    Now i'm considering buying a Hartke 4.5 XL cab, so that i can use the head with it and get an useable bass rig. The Hartke cab is a 4x10" cab with a driver, and it has a 99db\1w sensitivity.

    How loud do you think this setup could be? Do you think i would be able to play medium venues with it, and not use the PA? Would it be loud enough to play gigs with my metal band?

    If not, would i need a bigger amp, or more speakers? My basses are a Fender Jazz 5-string with EMG's, and a Ibanez Fretless.

    Sorry if this question have been asked too many times before, but i couldnt find an answer with the search function ;) :bag:

    Anyway, thanks alot!
    -Erlend
     
  2. nonsqtr

    nonsqtr The emperor has no clothes!

    Aug 29, 2003
    Burbank CA USA
    IMO, you might be right on the verge of adequacy.

    What amps are your other players using?

    Is your drummer very loud, or can he/she do finesse?
     
  3. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    Only if your metal band can keep a lid on its volume, which I sadly doubt...

    Hartkes aren't the most efficient cabs and you've only got 130W which isn't a huge amount to play with. Maybe with a horn loaded cab like one of the Fitzmaurice designs, or a Ampeg 8x10", Schroeder 1210 or Eden 410XLT.

    Would be easier to get more power, it's relatively cheap nowadays.

    Alex
     
  4. 43apples

    43apples Guest

    Nov 9, 2003
    Thanks guys, i appreciate your help ;).

    My band has done *alrigth* with a 50 watt Yahama bass amp for practice and clubs, but i want something that i can play small stages with without having to use the PA. Damn soundmen, i'm sick and tired of them forcing me to mic my bass amp, and on top of that they give me no monitor and crapify my sound..... :spit:

    Anyways, i'm not going to play an arena or an outdoor concert, hehe ;). Nothing larger than a gymnastics hall :smug:

    With 260 watts of power and 4x10" drivers, i thougth it should be loud enough.... oh well, i suppose you are rigth ;) :cool:

    It's just important to me to have a thick, full sound that i can both feel and hear. Something that really fills the room with punch and rumble..... doesn't all bass players want that? :p

    Sorry for all the rambling :)
    -Erlend
     
  5. 43apples

    43apples Guest

    Nov 9, 2003
    Well, my guitarists are using 50-75 watt valve amps, and my drummer is pretty punchy in his playing. He doesn't beat everything to death, but he's very dynamic and explosive ;)

    The main thing for me as the bassist in my metal band is to provide a thick growl, the bass. Something that creates the fundament of the music ;).

    In my fusion band, i play alot of articulate fretless lines, and slap. There i need a punchy, clear tone with high end sizzle.

    I'd also like to add that gear is extremely pricey here in norway, and i'm a poor working bassplayer with no money ;). I can't buy a new head either, because i don't have a cab :D

    I need to stop talking so much :rolleyes:

    Cheers!
    -Erlend
     
  6. Joe Nerve

    Joe Nerve Supporting Member

    Oct 7, 2000
    New York City
    Endorsing artist: Musicman basses, Hipshot products
    I'm sure the head will handle it, I'm not sure the bottom will. I have a Peavey 130 combo from the same year and me thinks 130 watts back then was different than 130 watts today because I haven't found anything in about 15 years of searching that can match the power this thing puts out. With 230 watts I'm quite sure you'll have absolutely nothing to worry about. I also think that's the head they have in a studio I sometimes rehearse in, and it always has lots of power to spare. My drummer also doesn't know how to play quietly - and I've played with literally 100s of drummers so I hae something to guage his volume by.

    I had a Hartke 4X10 and a hartke 200 watt head - and I hated it. Used it once. The Peavey knocked it to all hell. I would definitely consider different bottoms, and I'd shoot for a really good 1X15 instead of the 4X10. You could always add 10s later if you want, but me thinks the 15 will give you more lows. Don't know all that much about bottoms though so ya might wanna ask a little more round here. The 1X15 Black Widow in my Peavey has yet to be matched by anything I've played through since I got it.
     
  7. alexclaber

    alexclaber Commercial User

    Jun 19, 2001
    Brighton, UK
    Director - Barefaced Ltd
    I don't see how you can use both sides of the amp without rewiring the Hartke. That may be possible but it depends on the individual drivers' impedance. Worth trying though, because 260W is usefully more than 130W.

    Alex
     
  8. Tash

    Tash

    Feb 13, 2005
    Bel Air Maryland
    Yeah. To make use of both side of the amp you''ll need two seperate 4 ohm cabs. Unless the head can be bridged. You'd actually better off getting a pair of 2.5XL cabs and running one per side. Or getting a 2.5XL and a 115XL for a wider tonal range. Both are 8 ohm cabs so you wouldn't get the full 130 watts into each, but it would still pull more power total than the single 410@130 watts. Also the the heavier low end response of the 115XL would be a big plus (I used to use a 4.5XL cabinet and found it inadequate by itself, it just didn't have the "oomph" in the low end. On top of an 115 it was much better).

    http://www.zzounds.com/item--HTK25XL
    http://www.zzounds.com/item--HTK115BXL

    These are the cabs I'm talking about, no idea what they run in Norway though.
     
  9. 43apples

    43apples Guest

    Nov 9, 2003
    Thanks alot Tash, Joe and Alexclaber ;).

    A 2.5XL and a 115 cab would cost me 1500-1600 USD :rolleyes: , so i'm not sure if i'll be able to afford it. The 115XL by it self would be about $800, and the 2.5XL about just as much.

    In comparison, the 4.5XL is just $200 more. But then i won't be able to use both sides of the amp..... and i won't get the lows either :meh:

    Any other suggestions?

    Thanks,
    -Erlend
     
  10. Tash

    Tash

    Feb 13, 2005
    Bel Air Maryland
    Find another make of cab that is cheaper? What about an Avatar from thier Holland distributor? (http://www.gear4music.nl)

    Wow, why is gear so expensive? Is it just import tariffs or sales tax or a mix of both? I had heard music equipment was pricey in Norway but that's crazy!
     
  11. 43apples

    43apples Guest

    Nov 9, 2003
    Yeah, that's what i thougth too, but i love the sound from the hartke's aluminium drivers :meh: ....... maybe a behringer cab? :bag:

    Behringer has a 115 cab with a Bugera speaker, that costs "only" $400, a 210 for the same price and a 410 for $670....... but i highly doubt that they can be any good :(

    So, any opinions on Behringer then? :)

    About the norwegian gear prices: First off all, norway has very high taxes and duties on everything. Also, norway isn't part of EU, and lastly the average norseman is pretty wealthy. On top of that, you have shipping and dealer markup.

    Thanks,
    -Erlend
     
  12. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    like's been said, it's really important to find out if the amp you have can be run in bridge mono mode or not. if it can, then you'll be able to bridge it into an 8 ohm cab. if not you'll need to get two 4 or 8 ohm cabs and run them one off each side.

    99 db for a 410 is an abysmal sensitivity rating. most 410 cabs are 103 dB - 106 dB. in fact, most bass cabs are rated at 100 dB or above regardless of speaker compliment. (now of course, the overall frequency response/voicing of the speaker can make it louder or quieter than the sensitivity which is rated at 1K, but IME, the hartke speaker jsut isnt one of the louder ones)
     
  13. 43apples

    43apples Guest

    Nov 9, 2003
    My amp cannot be brigded.
    Yeah, 99db is very low. Unfortunately, the Behringer cab i were looking on has a sensitivity rating of 96 dB :( .

    If i'm rigth, you would need three times the power to get the same sound volume out of a 96dB cab, than if you had a 105dB cab! :eyebrow:

    But then again, the Hartkes are too expensive, the Behringers aren't sensitive enough, and i don't know what do do :rollno:

    Any more tips and advice would be greatly appreciated :)
     
  14. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    actually you'd need just about TEN TIMES the power, but who's counting?????

    ;)
     
  15. I hate to ressurect an old thread, but there's just something I need to know, and it's probably best answered here than on a new thread.

    I used to play one of these heads into some newer Peavey cabs (a 2x10 and a big 15) rated at 4 ohms apiece. I was competing against 2 guitarists, one with a HK combo pushing 200 watts, and a hyperactive drummer. I honestly could not hear myself over those guys (not many would though I guess.)

    Here's where I'm curious. I don't think this amp is really rated to throw out 260 watts of power. If you look at the back of the amp, the two speaker outputs have lines that lead to the words "130W @ 4ohms" between the two jacks. The guys in the band were also trying to convince me that it was 130 x 2, but I wasn't buying it. In my experience, amps will usually list their power rating at 2ohms if the amp is indeed 2 ohms capable.

    The manual on the Peavey website lists the power simply as "130W at 4ohms" So, I'm assuming that this means the amplifier will, at its finest, generate 130 watts into 2 8ohm cabs.

    I should also throw in that that the amp would have random failures after two hours of eardrum bustin' practice.

    So, am I correct in assuming that 130 watts is all the Centurion head can muster? I'm curious because, I'm going to be investing in some new amplification soon, and I want to make sure I have enough power to hear myself. Granted, my next project will not be dealing with this overzealous former band of mine, but still, I'd like to be prepared.
     
  16. I suspect this amp has the same power amp section as my slightly older Peavey Series 400 "the bass"..

    Mine yields 130 watts at 4 ohms, but it's also rated into 2 ohm operation yielding 210 watts.

    I'm not suggesting it could be run into 2 ohms, but these older Peaveys are built well and I've found they generally met their specs. In other words, it should have run into a 4 ohm load all night long. Somenthing must've been amiss.

    I've gigged with my old Peavey head for years into a less-than-spectacular old Fender Bassman 2x15. For normal country/classic rock, it was enough power. But when I played with a really loud drummer and guitarist, it ran out of headroom.

    I still carry this old head around as a backup--had to drag it out once when my old Kustom tuck-and-roll head went up in flames in the middle of a gig...But if I were buying a new head, I'd go for at least 300 watts into 4 ohms.
     
  17. Well, that was part of the problem. The cabs that Centurion was running were 4 ohms, not 8. That, and of course trying to hear myself with a group of individuals who felt they were the sole pulse of the band. When I ran it with just the 15' incher, I never had a problem with it.

    It wasn't my rig anyways, and the last bassist who used it didn't like the low end as much as I do. I would agree with you on the headroom Nashvillebill. I didn't mind so much, simply because I like some grind in my tone, but I just want to be able to hear myself more than anything. Don't really think I need 300 watts though. Especially since my heavy rock days are behind me.

    Damn shame to hear what happened to your Tuck and Roll