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Does anyone else feel that the Used bass market is very slow?

Discussion in 'Basses [BG]' started by chrisbmets, Aug 28, 2019.


  1. Double E

    Double E I ain't got no time to play... Supporting Member

    Dec 24, 2005
    Cleveland, OH
    Ultimately, the seller is just much better off deciding on a price that includes shipping. Buyers do understand in the back of their head that shipping costs money. The "free shipping" label on your ad goes a long way in conveying that, and also is a great marketing tool. Most people will see the "free shipping" and excuse a price that is higher than the next guy's price that has extra charges for shipping. Obviously, retailers understand this and that is why such an overwhelming percentage of new items for sale online have free shipping.

    Do retailers take a bath and lose money on the shipping? No! They calculate it into the price and it works because all of the other retailers are doing it too. Private sellers shoot themselves in the foot and taint the market when they try to list their item at a price that will beat other listings but then slam shipping fees on top.

    Include the shipping in your bottom line selling price and list the item with "FREE SHIPPING"... most buyers are not stupid, they shop on total price and are not fooled by a seller trying to lowball a price only to charge for shipping.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
    rockdoc11 likes this.
  2. Double E

    Double E I ain't got no time to play... Supporting Member

    Dec 24, 2005
    Cleveland, OH
    I do not agree with this sentiment, as I said above, buyers shop on total price. If a buyer feels they are being burned on shipping, they will keep shopping.
     
  3. bucephylus

    bucephylus Supporting Member Commercial User

    Aug 18, 2002
    General Manager TecPadz LLC
    This is exactly the problem. Go ahead with that attitude. The result is that used cab sales just get shut down.

    There are a bunch of issues with this perspective. I’m not going to get in the weeds with it. As I said, used and new are two completely different things. Shipping costs have VASTLY escalated. Just putting it all on the seller sounds very macho; but, the result is that you are shutting down trade frequency. Over shipping. yay, that really makes sense.:rollno:

    Shipping should be a mutually shared responsibility, where no one is “screwing” anyone else. My $0.019.
     
  4. Double E

    Double E I ain't got no time to play... Supporting Member

    Dec 24, 2005
    Cleveland, OH
    If it costs too much to ship a cab, it doesn't matter who is paying for it... it shuts down the internet sale of used cabs either way. This is just a fact of life. You can't blame the shippers for charging for their services or the buyers for not wanting to blow their money on shipping when it pushes the cost of the used item beyond reason.

    What are the "issues"? What could possibly be wrong with stating basically that it is the sellers who need to deal with shipping issues one way or another.

    The seller is the the one that is initiating the transaction, they have all of the power from the beginning to steer the sale in their favor... at least as much as the market will bear. The buyer can take or leave any deal, their stake in the game is practically nil. The seller has a more obvious need or desire to make a deal that in most cases exceeds the buyer's motivation.

    So, we now have a market condition that requires the seller of a used speaker cabinet to sell at a lower price. So what? That's the new reality. Retailers get better shipping rates due to their volume and can sell and ship brand new cabinets a prices that now make buying used cabs much less attractive. So sellers now have to take what they can get.

    Yes, it costs money to ship... the bigger and heavier the object, the more $$. Again, fact of business. Makes perfect sense to me.
     
  5. bucephylus

    bucephylus Supporting Member Commercial User

    Aug 18, 2002
    General Manager TecPadz LLC
    OK, so that kind of dogma just shuts down transactions between musicians. We disagree, that’s all.
     
    organworthyplayer337 likes this.
  6. Double E

    Double E I ain't got no time to play... Supporting Member

    Dec 24, 2005
    Cleveland, OH
    I don't really understand your position at all... do you think that shipper's are overcharging for their services? Doesn't competition in that market level the pricing, or do you think they are all colluding to raise prices to keep people from using their services? And this is what you think is the determining factor driving private sales?

    Just what do you suggest will rectify this injustice?

    As I have said in earlier posts... I have followed the classifieds here more closely than most. The trading and selling going on now is still at a good clip. Someone inevitably comes out of the woodwork every so often to cry that the sky is falling based on their own anecdotal accounts.

    If sellers want to sell to a broad audience outside of their local market and buyers want to have a rich and diverse pool of stuff to choose from, long distance transactions between musicians will go on indefinitely. Cost of shipping will not stop it unless the people with all the cool stuff decide it ain't worth it, pick up their ball and go home pouting about the game being unfair.
     
  7. matti777

    matti777 Supporting Member

    Dec 13, 2007
    Edmonton, Canada
    Unless you live in a major centre and can wait for what you want to come up for sale locally you are paying for shipping whether you know it or not. If someone says they are including it you are still paying for it because you could of bought it cheaper if you had picked it up. If $100 pushes the price too high its not the buyers fault because he didn't pay for the freight cost. On another note, I had one potential buyer afraid to pay up front for a purchase. He even wanted a contract. Some people just aren't cut out to buy things they can't put their hands on.
     
    birminghambass likes this.
  8. Green Knight

    Green Knight Supporting Member

    Oct 18, 2016
    As a buyer, I don't want my shipping charges built in: I want to know exactly what it costs to send the bass to my location, as I know some sellers profit from padding shipping costs. At the same time, I'm sure other sellers eat a good deal of the shipping in order to offer the best price possible. Either way, it seems easier to me to charge the exact shipping costs case by case. Great thread, by the way! Hugely interesting and informative!
     
    matti777 likes this.
  9. I think a lot of people are struggling financially right now so the used boutique market in particular isn’t doing very well because of the limited number of people that can actually afford a bass like yours. The improvement in quality of more affordable instruments over the last few years doesn’t help the used boutique market either. Personally I’ve previously owned a couple $5k and $6k instruments but I’ve gotten to the point where I refuse to spend more than $2k on any bass that isn’t custom built for me to my specs. In fact out of the three basses I own today. I paid $1800 for my main player and my other two were $400 or less.
     
    chrisbmets likes this.
  10. Double E

    Double E I ain't got no time to play... Supporting Member

    Dec 24, 2005
    Cleveland, OH
    I can appreciate what your saying... for me though, the final total price is what I use to measure value. Sure the seller may round up the shipping costs. However, the buyer rarely knows what kind of profit the seller is making on an item to begin with, so why should it matter if they are making a little more on shipping? Also, why shouldn't a seller make a little on shipping, that takes effort and risk too.
     
    Brad Johnson likes this.
  11. Especially on CL, good luck getting more than 50% of what you have in it. Very rarely does anything non original help the value. Not saying that’s fair, but reality unfortunately.
     
    organworthyplayer337 likes this.
  12. bucephylus

    bucephylus Supporting Member Commercial User

    Aug 18, 2002
    General Manager TecPadz LLC
    Be nice. This isn’t some kind of unresolvable conflict.

    Look, I gig with three Berg cabinets in various combinations. I bought all three of them here on the TB classified 7 or 8 years ago. All three are 50 pounds +/-. Shipping back then on a 50-ish pound cabinet was $75 - $90 CONUS, depending on destination. With that level of cost, we didn’t think much about it; and yes, sellers ate the cost. Still, that cost didn’t shut down our ability to do player to player exchanges; which after all is what the TB classified is all about.

    Fast forward, and these days the seller is paying more than twice that amount. But, the rub is that the cabs aren’t going for much more. The result is that shipping is a much higher fraction of the transaction than it used to be.

    Why are shipping costs higher? Again, supply and demand for the service. And, not much any of us is going to do to influence that fact.

    So, the bottom line is what do we want TB classified to be? Do you want a forum that enables cats to exchange gear? Or, do you want a captive form of profit driven eBay? All I’m saying is that shipping costs have increased significantly (a fact), and it’s worth discussing how TB should respond. I happen to think that promoting fair exchange between players is a good thing. Neither sellers nor buyers should be “screwing” the other. Thus, my suggestion to share the rising shipping costs.

    If some kind of Ayn Rand dogma is more your thing, then we simply have different opinions. That’s ok too.
     
  13. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Supporting Member

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    DR Strings
    I say shipped in CONUS or includes shipping... which means my price reflects that. Shipping isn't free.
     
  14. MMiller28

    MMiller28

    Apr 27, 2003
    Wisconsin
    I recently sold a bass with "$50 shipping", knowing that it would cost me $118.
     
    organworthyplayer337 likes this.
  15. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Supporting Member

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    DR Strings
    To know the exact cost before the sale takes the ability to estimate, which is far from the norm. And it's not like selling used gear is an exact science.

    I include shipping in my price, that way I don't need to get the exact price before the sale. Don't like my price, cool.

    I also tend to price items fairly so negotiating down isn't needed. People who recognize a good to great deal will probably know what I mean. Sometimes it's funny to watch people miss out on a great deal because they don't even know what one looks like.
     
  16. Double E

    Double E I ain't got no time to play... Supporting Member

    Dec 24, 2005
    Cleveland, OH
    I still don't understand your position... Buyers will of course have to share the burden for shipping costs, they always have. Either in the form of an inflated sale price to cover the shipping or paying for it outright.

    Why are you characterizing my sentiments as dogma? How am I presenting point of view as any more dogmatic than yours?
     
  17. CyberSnyder

    CyberSnyder Gold Supporting Member

    Jun 19, 2003
    Maryland
    I Endorse Alien Audio Basses
    Yeah, anything to offset some shipping cost.
     
    organworthyplayer337 likes this.
  18. CyberSnyder

    CyberSnyder Gold Supporting Member

    Jun 19, 2003
    Maryland
    I Endorse Alien Audio Basses
    It's difficult to include your shipping costs in your listing price when it will inflate the price and make the sale less attractive. And you're closer to the point of "screw it, I'll just buy it new - with free shipping". Sales tax now included from most internet corporate sales gives individual sales on TB a bit of an advantage though.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2019
  19. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Supporting Member

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    DR Strings
    Exactly.
     
  20. nostatic

    nostatic Supporting Member

    Jun 18, 2004
    lost angeles, CA
    Endorsing Artist: FEA Labs
    It is a zero-sum game - a buyer is paying a certain amount, a seller, after costs, is receiving a certain amount. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to apportion transaction costs, but typically the seller is the one paying them and they should figure them into the selling price accordingly.'

    I always list my stuff with a price that is "shipped/insured in the CONUS." It is a bit of a crapshoot as a buyer who is close will cost less in shipping than someone far away, but that's the way it goes. Also I have my preferred way of shipping, and if I put the onus on the buyer to pay for shipping they may choose the cheapest (and bigger PITA for me) method.

    It also depends on how much people think their time is worth. Some think their instrument is worth a ton, but act as if someone's time isn't...
     

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