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Does anyone know about KTM finishes?

Discussion in 'Luthier's Corner' started by jay_t, Mar 16, 2006.


  1. I'm curious if anyone has used it yet. I'm looking at the info here:

    http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdpr...eader=KTM+Product+Line+%96+Water+based+Finish

    They are talking about how the finish sinks in around titebond joints. It suggests using hide glue or super glues to remedy the issue. That seems like a bit of a turnoff but I hate using lacquer because of how bad it is for the environment. I have never used hide glue but I have heard about problems down the road with the glue joints down the road.

    Can I have my cake and eat it too?

    Thanks!

    Jay_t
     
  2. Here is a little snip-it from the page:

    "We have heard that it is best to use our FG glue since regular Titebond tends to cause sinking around binding and purfling joints. It can accept our Waterbased Metal Acid dyes and our Water based Aniline dyes. If you are dying the wood directly (as opposed to adding it to the finish) be sure to use the alcohol or MEK based dyes to keep the colors from running."

    The FG glue is a granular hide glue which they claim is better than premixed hide glues. I don't know anything about it.
     
  3. gfried84

    gfried84 Commercial User

    May 7, 2005
    Owner Fried Guitars Inc.
    hi,
    I use Granular hide glue regularly for repair work. Regluing bridges, patches. Hide glue is in fact way stronger than titebond. The only problem is the limited clamp time. Hide Glue dries with evaporation and cooling. As soon as the warm glue cools to about 90 degrees you can no longer clamp it. Trying to glue a fingerboard would be tricky unless you have about 30 arms to get the clamps on. I sometimes heat up an acoustic bridge to get a little more working time. Hide glue fails at a much higher temp that titebond.
    By the way the fg glue is not hide glue. It is a premixed glue that you would use the same as titebond.http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?CategoryName=Adhesives&NameProdHeader=Instrument+makers+glue
     
  4. stroy05

    stroy05 Supporting Member

    Feb 21, 2001
    Houston, TX
    Endorsing Artist: Fodera Basses, Noble Amps, Aguilar Amps, JHAudio Inears
    I also am wondering about this finish
     
  5. Thanks! I have just heard bad things about hide glue joints. Amazing in this business huh? Anyway, I tried searching on the FG glue and came up with nothing. How is the premix? Any experience with it?

    Thanks again.

     
  6. FBB Custom

    FBB Custom TalkBass Pro Commercial User

    Jan 26, 2002
    Maryland
    Owner: FBB Bass Works
    Mike Doolin uses KTM products. I believe he has published an article on the web that describes his process. If I recall correctly, KTM-9 can produce nice results but requires a little more prep work than some of the more chemically products out there. Do a good search on KTM and Doolin and you should probably get some hits.

    I believe there has been some discussion on this at MIMF so you might look there.
     
  7. Didn't see anything from Doolin.... yet. I did register though. that is a nice site with some great info on it.

    Thanks! I really would like to use something more "earth friendly". I would feel much better. Hard to get away from nitro though. I think I'll buy a can and see what happens on some test pieces.
     
  8. Rickett Customs

    Rickett Customs

    Jul 30, 2007
    Southern Maryland
    Luthier: Rickett Customs...........www.rickettcustomguitars.com
    I'll take a minute and necromance this thread..... ;)


    I had good results over the weekend with the KTM water based.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  9. ddwilkins

    ddwilkins

    Dec 21, 2006
    Wilson, NC
    I have strongly been thinking about using KTM for my finish.
     
  10. Rickett Customs

    Rickett Customs

    Jul 30, 2007
    Southern Maryland
    Luthier: Rickett Customs...........www.rickettcustomguitars.com
    Well, the bright sides of that is:

    You can brush it on (Use a sponge type brush), but it'll take about 5 coats, then level it with 800 wet and repeat a few times.

    No fumes or bad smells, cleans up with water.

    The piece I posted, has 10 coats brushed (leveled it twice), then I went out and bought a sprayer, which resulted in thicker coats per pass and was alot faster to do, with less bubbles.

    At this point, I believe that it is a good finish but i want to try some more and extend the cure time.
     
  11. ddwilkins

    ddwilkins

    Dec 21, 2006
    Wilson, NC

    I like the fact that it can be brushed on. I don't have a sprayer, and I'm trying to keep the cost of my first build down as much as possible. I've seen that someone up here used the KTM-9 clear on their bass and it turned out great, from the photos. It was brushed on as well.
     
  12. Sardine

    Sardine

    Feb 2, 2009
    Maine
    KTM-9 is a nice finish. I used it on my most recent acoustic with great results. I used white glue from LMI for the joints, and I haven't noticed any shrinking. Yellow glues such as Titebond tend to creep and can produce visible lines in any thin finish.

    Pic of my acoustic finished in KTM-9:

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Jason_A

    Jason_A

    May 26, 2009
    Marion, IA
    I also recently used the KTM-9 on a bass build. I normally use lacquer, but it was winter and I wanted to finish the bass in the basement. I made a little plastic "spray booth" and was able to spray indoors. There were some fumes, but nothing terribly nasty. I'm sure spraying outdoors or in a well ventilated area is better. I've been happy with the finish. I'm trying to remember how long I let the finish cure before sanding/polishing - I want to say something like 7-10 days. Polished out great. So far I haven't noticed any shrinkage of the finish, and it's been 3-4 months.

    I would say that it works an aweful lot like lacquer - but builds quicker. It definitely drys hard, too. I also used it on the neck, and knocked it down to a satin finish with some 0000 steel wool. I've had finishes that never quite felt like they fully cured - kind of always felt "tacky". This is a nice hard finish.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. bassy7

    bassy7

    Jan 29, 2010
    I experimented with KTM 5-6 years ago. I really wanted it to be "the finish". It was easy and pleasant to work with, buffed nicely and was pretty clear.
    But............... it never seemed to get hard enough for such a built up finish. It didn't pass the fingernail test, scratched to easily. I am confident I applied it correctly to the T- but it just didn't get hard enough. It always possible it was user error on my part. if so, perhaps I should experiment with it again.

    Can you guys that have used it vouch that you cannot dig your fingernails into it and scratch with a little bit of effort?

    thanks
     
  15. Sardine

    Sardine

    Feb 2, 2009
    Maine
    KTM-9 is not polyester. It goes on thin and unless you apply many, many coats, it won't give you the "dipped in plastic" look of poly. I doubt you could dent the finish on my acoustic with a fingernail, but a heavy pick certainly would. However, that finish is very thin, only 5 coats. Since it dries so fast, 9 coats or more would not be a huge hassle.
     
  16. so does each layer burn into the previous one like nitro lacquer? My main problem is witness lines/oily patches that you get sometimes with catalyzed poly.
     
  17. bassmanhamilton

    bassmanhamilton Commercial User

    Nov 21, 2007
    Georgia
    Owner, J. Hamilton Guitars
    I dont have any experience with KTM products but I've used Target Coatings warterbourne finishes on a couple of recent basses and have been very pleased. They have a good user forum on their site as well. Pretty decent Q&A information and support.
    http://www.targetcoatings.com/shop/