does the good life eventually catch up and take a whole country down?

I'd say it's a lot more to do with dodgy politicians & the overall economic climate than it is to do with the laid back life style (at least in Italy & Greece IMO).

 

+10000 all the way...thats it right there

 

I have never been abroad and the US is all I know (East Coast) but the division between the "haves" and the
"have-nots" is getting wider.

 

See, I hear this a lot too.

Yet, the people who plead poverty all seem to have newish cars, 50 inch TVs, satalite (Sky), current generation games consoles, top brand trainers etc etc.

Just strikes me as odd that so many who claim poverty yet have so many luxuries (granted, I'm talking about here, not in the US). There are certainly some things which suck, such as trying to buy a house or even a flat/apartment!

Why, back when I were a lad . . .

Monty Python - Four Yorkshiremen - YouTube

 

I don't think "the good life" is what takes a country down, it's living on borrowed money. Plenty of countries place less emphasis on work and more on family and leisure time than we do in the USA, and seem to get along fine. But what's true for individuals is also true for countries: you can't spend more than your income forever.

 

It's definitely not from people in general taking it easy. The average person is busting their hump nowadays. Most folks I know are doing the jobs of two to three people now. I regularly work sixty hour weeks and I'm not even close to unusual in that respect. The only people I know of that are really taking it easy are the ones who will never need to work to have money. I suppose the 'welfare kings' that you hear about on talk radio, but I've never actually seen also fall into that category.

What is destroying us is that the people who should be investing in keeping America strong (or at least making it strong AGAIN) are generally being Scrooge McDuck and hoarding their money where they can roll around in it, in stead of investing it.

Or they have sent all their companies jobs to Bangladesh and the money from that sale to the Caymans.

The end will come because America needs her middle class. But the middle class is becoming extinct.

Sorry if that sounds political. I might just be crabby today.

 

I have seen that in a few house I've responded to on medical calls. But I was thinking more in terms of some of my acqauintances, for whom the most luxurious thing they own is a refrigerator.

Most of the people I picture in that group are just glad to still have a roof that isn't a cardboard box.

There really are real 'have nots' out here.

 

As said, my experience on the matter comes more from this side of the pond.

I dare say, I should have said that the 'vocal' poor, seem to be the ones that aren't really struggling that much.

 

I actually think our economy is hurting because all the na sayers. Economies are based on trust and positive out looks, when negative attitudes spread people lose faith in a none gold regulated market. It's a case of be careful what you wish for,i think some are actually hurting and stalling the economy just to prove thier stance correct. If people as a while in this nation stop saying why and poor us, and start saying lets get to work things would change almost over night. Insert clint eastwood super bowl commercial here.

 

I don't know... Peter from family guy said it best, something along the lines of. "things ain't so good in America, that's why we're all so fat."

And even those living in handouts from the government as their career have satellite tvs, 50" tvs, cars, houses 22" wheels. Don't believe it? Come to Louisiana.

 

I know not of this good life you speak of.

Some sould say that the decline has been impending over the course of the last thirty years......:scowl:

 

Those 1% are the drastic exception. It's the folks who are working hard at the low end of the wage scale that are getting hosed. Those that do nothing are protected by the government, and the well off are fine... but the working class through the low end of the middle class are getting killed.

 

I spent a summer working in holland and italy a few years back. It seems that the way people go about their lives there is more relaxed, not as fast paced as we do here in the states. Things here are much more wound up i guess you could say. This is generally, not necesarily directly related to work. Its a whole different cultural mentality. I dont see things here changing any time soon though. We mock Europeans and their laid back ways. Taking a country down? Maybe in the land of hyperbole...

 

Thats exactly what all Norwegians (that i know) thats been to Australia say about you More laidback.

 

I dont know... I work hard and am probably closer to the low end of the wage scale, yet I dont feel like Im getting hosed at all. Id place myself on the low end of middle class, and things seem pretty dandy to me. Though, Im not one who needs/wants a lot of expensive items, Ive got my fair share of expenditures. I dont really see how Im "getting killed" here. I feel like Im living a pretty good life to be honest.

I live in LA, which is a pretty fast paced place to be, but if I hop in my car and drive 6-7 hours North to San Francisco that pace changes pretty quickly to a much more mellow one.
Go outside the city there and things slow down a whole lot more.

 

so... all that talk about Italy & Greece & Spain is hyperbole? just asking, because from all the news I hear, they are on the verge of relaxing their way right into bankruptcy...am I wrong.

it seems if it weren't for the Hard-working Germans, they already would be dead broke. and I say this reservedly, because getting "Loans" to tide you over is not the same thing as being sustainably independent.

what am i missing?

 

The tax code, government largess, etc. are generally targeted at the low and high end.

Look into effective tax rates (including all taxes) for all earners, effects of rising health care costs on different income cohorts, and the per earner income growth disparities.

...and as far as income is concerned, right around $75k household income is generally considered "lower middle class", so I'm generally discussing households in the sub $50k income range.

 

Well then Im in the upper lower class, I guess, at $34k (2012 gross earnings). My health care costs have remained the same for the last 3 years, and my coverage has increased. I am aware of income inequality and the disparities between the rich and poor, but I dont think thats necessarily anything new. I will have to look into effective tax rates, though.

 

I generally feel much the same as you. A lot of people don't know how much I make, but I think if I told them they'd be genuinely shocked - I am good friends with people who I am sure make 4-6 times my income, and I bet they have no idea that the difference is that large.

The big difference for me is that I have two young kids under 10 years old, and I want to be able to do more for them in the future. For myself, I'm pretty content with very little in the way of material stuff, and I definitely have way more than I need already.