Does "tube warmth"="big mid scooop"??

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Cristo, Nov 19, 2005.

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  1. I have a sabddi, which is supposedly a good emulator of "tube tone". I find that if I use its blend knob at 100%, it sounds like a big mid scoop+bass boost.

    I tried an amp that has a "tube drive" and it sounds the same way. Boomy, undefined. Like neck pickup + tone knob @0% +bass knob on the amp way up. Boom.

    What gives?

    Is the legendary "tube warmth" I hear all this clamor about just a big boomy bass boost mid scoop pillow in front of the speaker tone? Surely not...

    I'm confused...what happened to the midrange..
  2. i've never used an RBI, but i have an SVP PRO and it doesn't sound mid scooped at all when i drive it.
  3. specplyrz

    specplyrz Banned

    Nov 11, 2005
    Midrange is all in your mind. Back in "the day", when bassists played with bottom, very rarely were all these compressors, fuzz tone, wah wah, flangers and everything else that hides a bass players "mistakes"...that's right, MISTAKES, used so much.
    Can "effects" help...sure, but more often they hide a bassists lack of being able to hold down the rhythm section.

    Now we have five strings, six strings, 7,8,9,....What ever happened to the drummer and bass guitar playing TOGETHER??

    It seems today, every Tom, Dick, Harry and Shirly want to be a lead guitarist on bass. Complete with the added "effects" to confuse the situation more.

    I play through an SVT CL on top of the classic 810e bottom. Rumble in the jungle....that's what a bass player is SUPPOSED to do!! Now we all get to listen to "mid range this, cut the lows, crank the highs"....sheesh.....if I wanted to be a lead guitarest, I'd of taken up that instrument.

    Tube sound is not just "clammor" although it's not the "end all" to tone either. I love big FAT low end....I'm a bass player...I use ultra boost......and bass on rig is full and effects to hide behind...when I miss a note, (and EVERYONE does), it's heard loud and clear, with BOTTOM!! :eyebrow:
  4. :eyebrow: :rollno:
  5. I certainly wouldn't describe it as mid-scooped. I can see boomy in some situations for sure, and my tube rig definitely doesn't have the high end that my tube pre + solid state rack has. However scooped midrange - definitely not! Lots of lows and mids and lovely fatness in tube warmth.
  6. andy_p6


    Apr 5, 2004
    London, UK
    I personally find my SABDDI to be quite mid-scooped with the blend all the way up. I generally run it at half.

    However when I owned a Sunn 300T it was pure tube power - Loud, Low, punchy and most of all - defined. It could certainly cut through a mix.
  7. nysbob


    Sep 14, 2003
    Cincinnati OH
    All my tube amps have tons of midrange...that's where a lot of the warmth is. But I'm no big fan of the sansamp either...
  8. westland


    Oct 8, 2004
    Hong Kong
    I'm still trying to get a handle on this as well. From what I have read, the scoop in vintage setups was often from the passive pickup controls on the bass more than the amp. The way the old Fenders were wired essentially raised or lowerd the mid-scoop with the treble and bass pots, but never eliminated it. Maybe the amp contributed. I don't know.

    I've downloaded PSpice which you can mate with MatLab to model mechanical interactions (like pickups-strings and moving speaker coils) in tube circuits (plus all the important tubes are Spice modeled at so hopefully I can plug these into a simple amp design). Someday when I get time I'll run simulations on a Fender Bassman, and maybe the BDDI... I have circuit designs for both.
  9. haujobb


    Dec 16, 2004
    Listen to Jean Baudin and try to say anything you just said with a straight face bud...
  10. Adam Barkley

    Adam Barkley Mayday!

    Aug 26, 2003
    Jackson, MS
    I glad you take care of playing bass as it is supposed to be played. I'll stick to playing what I feel like playing.
  11. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    You're old, dude! ;)

    BTW, F the drummer.

    But seriously, I see nothing wrong at all with your style of playing. But while it may not be your bag, nothing wrong with other styles, either. Lighten up a little and let people play how they want.
  12. cheezewiz


    Mar 27, 2002

    Walk out 20 feet from the stage. I bet that 8.5 with ultra boost sounds like warmed over elephant farts.
  13. Juniorkimbrough


    Mar 22, 2005
    Mississippi / Memphis, TN
    Endorsing Artist: Lakland Basses
    The SABDDI don't have a mids knob so that may be part of the reason it is sounding like that to you and I do somewhat agree that when turning the blend all the way up it does seem to boost the bass and take away some of the mids and high end. I usually run the blend on my RBI at 12-3 o'clock and I have the mids boosted to 2 oclock, bass at 12 oclock and treble at 12 oclock.
  14. popinfresh


    Dec 23, 2004
    Melbourne, Aus
    To answer the threadstarters question and not argue about anything..

    = No.
  15. specplyrz

    specplyrz Banned

    Nov 11, 2005

    Well, I would expect you to have this reaction. I just visited your site. Listened to "riot". Enough effects on your bass there?

    I respect you and your band and wish you guys luck. It's just "anger rock" has, IMHO, played itself out. Came in with Nirvana, has been copied, stapled and now is on it's way out.

    Bass is and always will be the BOTTOM of the music. Ya know, the foundation of which all is built on.
  16. cheezewiz


    Mar 27, 2002

    I haven't bothered listening to haujobbs clips. Why don't you post some of yours we can critique. I'm curious to hear this bottom heavy clear sound.
  17. el_Kabong


    Jul 11, 2005

    As for the sabddi being a good tube emulator, I bought one on reputation (doh!) and thought it was awful. Flat, hard and dry sounding to my ears, not tubey at all imo. ymmv etc...
  18. cheezewiz


    Mar 27, 2002
    I stand corrected. Specplyrz sent me a link to his cuts. I don't hear the thunderous bottom he claims, but I DO like his tone quite a least recorded. Definitely a classic Ric through Ampeg tone. In listening to the cuts, Spec and I are obviously of the same generation (definite 80's pop influence). Anyway, well done Specplyrz. You sound damn fine.
  19. David Vega

    David Vega

    Aug 28, 2002
    Puerto Rico
    I have svt4, SVP-bsp and I have plenty of midrange!, Watch out, not only the amp give you that. Bass guitar, eq in active or passive pickupes, preamp on basses, strings, pick or finger

    As for know, i love tubes, and I cut always thru the mix, no mid scoop.
  20. specplyrz

    specplyrz Banned

    Nov 11, 2005

    Thank you. I appreciate your reviews...and yup...loved the 80's!! :cool:

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