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Don't know what type of cab to match my wt400

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by MCBTunes, Dec 27, 2005.

  1. I've been running into trouble deciding on types of cabs to match...

    I paired a 1x15 and a 2x10 in the music store and I could barly hear the 2x10. The 1x15 was way overpoweing it. I dont have much to try and what I can try can only be done in music stores. So volume levels must be relatively low.

    At the moment I dont need too much volume. One cab and 200 watts is fine. Price, Low end, and how do I say "being clear without being harsh" are my 3 concerns.

    a 1x12 seems like a good cab, but doesnt make sense in the long run due to adding another cab. I could use some suggestions on what kind of things pair up well with 400 watts at 4 ohms and 200 watts at 8 ohms. Help me/
  2. bongomania

    bongomania Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    I ended up selling my WT400 precisely because I couldn't find a cab I liked that fit the power ratings. The closest was a Bag End D10BXD, check them out.
  3. burk48237

    burk48237 Supporting Member

    Nov 22, 2004
    Oak Park, MI
    I'm running a 2 X 10 and 2 X 12 (LDS Neo) with my WT550. Both are 8 ohm cabs. I like the two cab set up because most gigs I can get away with one but if I need more headroom the second cab is available. The 2 X 12 cab will definitely handle most gigs around town. If you go with Eden cabs, a pair of 210 XLT's is a great match for that head. I went the LDS route due to weight, the neos weigh 40 and 50 lbs each respectively.
  4. Davo737


    Feb 29, 2000
    Syracuse, NY
    I really like 12s with my WT400. I frequently run mine with an Aguilar GS112. I happen to love the sound together, incredibly warm and smooth, but some may find it a bit too dark of a combination.
  5. KJung

    KJung Supporting Member

    :confused: I've never heard a WT400 sound bad with any cab with which it was paired.

    Sounds like the 15 overwhelming the 210 was a simple sensitivity issue.

  6. Any cab rated above about half of the amp's power rating would work just fine. There is absolutely no reason to not use, say, a 1000W rated cab with that amp.
  7. Oh I thought if you got cabs that were rated too high the amp would have problems pushing the speakers...

    ie. a quality 4x10 and a 2x12 would over do it, sure the speakers would move... but not properly.

    So then.

    1. If this is the case I will probably pick up a 2x12, run it at 200 watts, then if I ever need more power, simply buy a 4x10 and a power amp using my eden as a preamp. plausible?

    2. Or I can run a 2x10 stand alone and pick up a 1x15 or a 2x12 to put under it. I can see those 2 cabs at 400 wattsw being a good match. And I can also see 400 watts being enough for quite awhile... because all it is really for is stage monitoring right?

    Please correct me if I'm wrong =). And advise 1 or 2, I'm not that experienced so I'm not sure what the future of gigs will lead. I can only afford one cab right now though.
  8. KJung

    KJung Supporting Member

    +1 The power rating of a cabinet represents the maximum power you should put into it... not the minimum.

    Your plan sounds good. The other thing you can do is buy a larger, single 4ohm cab... like a 4ohm 410... which would allow the amp to generate its full 400 watts RMS into a single cab. Eden's are conservatively rated, so 400 watts will get nice and loud and sound very full with an efficient cab.
  9. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    i had one for a long time and only sold it because i needed the cash. I plan to eventually get a 550 to take advantage of the 2 ohm rating.

    anyhow, you can't "underpower" speakers. I used several combinations and singles with mine, including an swr 410 with an eden 210 (both 8 ohm), and a bag end 15 with either one of those cabs, or with an aguilar 112 or a bag end 112.

    The 400 does well with a lot of different cabs (the bag end 15 was one of my favorites). overall i found that the eq let me use just about any cab i wanted with it. With 2 cabs i could play all but the loudest gigs, but with the exception of the aguilar, all of my cabs are pretty loud to begin with. (the aguilar gs112 is a great cab, it's just not as loud as some. however, with some midrange bump on the 400's eq it got louder).

    my personal vote would be to get two smaller 8 ohm cabinets. bring one to small gis and practices, or two to big gigs. As funny as it sounds, the swr 410 and bag end 1x15 was one of the better sounding combinations for a lot of gigs.
  10. well there is an ampeg 1x15 for 465cdn(about 100 cheaper than new) in mint condition, would it be a good stand alone untill I can afford a 4x10 to put on it? It could be awhile. Or should I scrounge up for a better stand alone? I play rock muse style, I also like to tap. Too muddy? I guess I can try it, but only quietly.
  11. bongomania

    bongomania Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    There is a commonly-held belief that if you use a lower-powered amp with a higher-power-rated cab, you run the risk of damaging your speakers when you crank your amp and the signal starts clipping at high frequencies. So, many people advise using a power amp with higher power ratings than their cabinets, for extra headroom before clipping.

    Here are some links supporting this claim:
    link 1
    link 2
    link 3
    link 4

    Those links include opinions from Sweetwater, JBL, and Crown. On the other hand, Rane doesn't buy it:
    link 5

    The "real truth" may vary between particular pieces of equipment, especially as some amps by a given brand may be designed to match their cabs, while a lot of us mix and match between brands.

    But anyhow, it was that concern about under-powering cabs that led me to be frustrated by matching a cab to the WT400. And I was being very finicky about frequency range, size/weight, etc. <shrug>
  12. fatsobasso


    Dec 24, 2005
    Ormond florida
    I have always wondered about this topic myself,so what the consensus here is, match your amp head to the speaker rms watt,
    or go a bit over on the power head not speaker wattage?

    ie.. Head 400 w @ 8ohms
    600 w @4ohms go for a head that is about 750watts
  13. Ok I knew of that theory.... Here is one I want to know....

    If I run my eden at level 4, will I get any more volume out of a huge higher rated 4x12 than I would out of a normal 4ohm 2x12.... speaker area says yes, but because those drivers are higher rated are they harder to puch, thus no. What physical characteristic makes one 4x10 rated at 400 watts and the other rated at 800?
  14. fatsobasso


    Dec 24, 2005
    Ormond florida
    i think it has to do with what the voice coils of the speakers can take.
  15. The real truth is that headroom has absolutely nothing to do with the ratio of amp power to cabinet power handling. Headroom is the ratio between the power you have available and the power you're actually using, and you get headroom by having an amp that's substantially bigger than what you need to get the volume and tone you want. That's it. The cab's power handling doesn't enter into it. When you employ a 1000 W amp with a 500 W cab--which is a perfectly legitimate thing to do, with proper use--essentially *all* the benefit you derive is simply from having a big amp that's more than you need; *none* of the benefit is from the fact that the cab's power handling is less than the amp's max output. If a 1000 W amp is way more amp than you need, you have exactly the same headroom with a 2000 W cab that you would with a 500 W cab (provided the two have equivalent sensitivity and frequency response). In practical terms, you could argue you'd have even more "effective headroom" with the 2000 W cab, because you'd have more of a margin of error before the cab started complaining or possibly being damaged.</shrug>
  16. IMO a simple, practical approach is to (1) get an amp that has considerably more power than you actually need, and (2) get a cab that can take *at least* the amount of power you're likely to be using on a fairly continuous basis (which, if you've chosen your amp well, should not be near the amp's maximum). For most uses, probably having your cab rated at anywhere from half your amp's max up to 1X, 1.5X, 2X, or whatever is fine. There is absolutely nothing *inherently* problematic in having a cab rated higher than the amp. I'd say the main goal should be to get a good-sized amp, then make sure the cab can handle it.
  17. cheezewiz

    cheezewiz Supporting Member

    Mar 27, 2002
    When I had a WT400, I used either a 410T, two 210XLT's, or one 210XLT. Each combination sounded great, but I think my favorite was the two 210XLTs.
  18. Moo

    Moo Banned

    Dec 14, 2002
    Oakland, CA
    The highest rated cabinet I've used with my Eden 400 is a Schroeder 1212 (1000 watts @ 4ohm) and it was also the loudest by far for a given volume level on the amp. One thing that stood out for me with that cab is how loud it was with the knobs turned down.
  19. Chef

    Chef Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    May 23, 2004
    Columbia MO
    Staff Reviewer; Bass Gear Magazine
    Schroeder 1210.
    Bam, you're done.
    I use one with my Thunderfunk 420-also rated at 400 watts-all the time, and I love it to death.

  20. bongomania

    bongomania Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Oct 17, 2005
    PDX, OR
    owner, OVNIFX and OVNILabs
    I disagree- or more accurately, the theory I'm talking about disagrees. There is a difference between the cab complaining and it being damaged. The "amp rated higher than the cab" theory says that the speakers will fart out and give other audible warnings before the signal starts clipping, so we will turn down our volume before any damage is done. Whereas with a cab rated higher than the amp, supposedly the signal can start clipping (and damaging the speakers) without the speakers giving any audible warning. As you know, some clipping just sounds like "good tone", especially on stage.

    I just want to make it super clear here- I am not saying I believe this theory whole-heartedly, but as the links I provided indicate, there is reason to give it real thought.