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Don't want to go insane

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous [BG]' started by TaySte_2000, May 21, 2002.

  1. TaySte_2000


    Jun 23, 2001
    Manchester, UK
    Endorsing Artist: Mojohand, Subdecay, Overwater, Matamp
    I've heard it's good to practice with a metronome but I don't really want to go insane and wake up in the middle of the night hearing ticking that isn't there. So my next option is a drum machine i'm looking at the Zoom MRT3 Micro RhythmTrak Drum Machine, it's only $120 at samash and it also works with the Zoom MRS-4 Digital Multi Track which is the little multi tracker i'm thinking of getting any one got any experiance with one of these units i'm interested mostly in the drum machine but would love to hear about the multi tracker. Both seem like good units that would fit in your gig bag to jam and record with at band practices.

    Moderators feel free to move this to the correct forum if this one is not right.
  2. Blackbird

    Blackbird Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2000

    I would gladly move this to General Instruction or any other forum instead of leaving it here, but a sense of pity for the other moderators compels me not to (I wouldn't want this kind of thread moved to Miscellaneous, even if it belonged here)

    Unless you have a very feeble mind, playing with a metronome won't "Make you insane" or make you "Wake up in the middle of the night hearing a ticking that isn't there". Since you have never used a metronome, you're talking completely out of your ass.

    Worse, putting this asinine idea online (again), you're exposing a lot of younger players to your misguided opinion and leading them to believe it is fact.

    Here's my take on your rationale:

    You really want a drum machine, but deep down you know you really need a metronome, so you created this cock and bull story in your mind and now you want other people's validation so you feel that you're on the right track. WRONG.

    I don't know what you'll be practicing, but the function of a metronome if is to act as training wheels for the sense of time all musicans should have naturally. Ideally, you should be able to hear the beats in your head and never stray. The metronome's just there to keep you honest.

    A drum machine is a poor substitute for a live drummer. I'm not saying you can't improve time with a drum machine, but all a drum machine is is a glorified metronome. It won't make your sense of time and interaction with a drummer any better than if you used a metronome.

    Besides, if your rationale(sic) were correct, wouldn't you go insane and wake up in the middle of the night hearing the sound of a drum machine in your head?

  3. Ouch, harsh dude :( . I agree with you on this one Big Wheel, but, ouch. I understand your trying to show this guy the light but, wow. Tay, a metronome is preferable, and though the ticking sounds a bit annoying on its own, you'll be playing bass, the metronome will be keeping rhythm, you'll hear the metronome but you won't pay attention to it, well you will but you won't. More or less, you won't go insane... from metronomes. And Biggie Smalls... make like ice and chill, everything will be fine. :D
  4. Blackbird

    Blackbird Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2000
    Yeah, I guess. Finals are over. I'll cut down on the coffee. Really.

    But the general gist of what i said stands.

    Oh, and it was FalsehoodBass who thought a metronome would make his head go Bleep all day long the last time.

    What's up with the metronome prejudice?
  5. *ToNeS*


    Jan 12, 2001
    Sydney AU
    Jeff Berlin started a cult?
  6. Yeah - I'm of the thought that you should save your money and buy a metronome for $20.

    Its all you need, and take it from me ... Ive been playing with one for years and I only hear a slight ticking when I sleep. Just kidding. The only thing you will hear is yourself getting better and better.

    Later -
  7. monkeyfinger

    monkeyfinger Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    Drum machines are a good tool for writing and arrainging music. They are not the tool to teach you time. Why? Because a good sense of time requires that you feel it without relying on any external time keeper. In other words your sense of time must be internalized. Playing to a drum machine only increases your dependency on it to provide the sense of time for you.

    Now a metronome can be as bad if you don't use it right. Never set the metronome so that it plays all the subdivisions for you. Example: Let's say you want to practice scales. You set the metronome at a slow speed, (say 40 bpm to start), and play 16th. To you, this will sound like the metronome is playing only on the first beat. It it up to you to sub-divide the remaining phrase.

    You should use the same approach when practicing a bass line. Set the metronome so that it only plays on the first and third beat. Now play the line focusing on getting the right emphasis on the downbeats. Now try setting the metronome on the 2 & 4. Repeat with the 2 only, then the 4 only, then the & of 2, and & of 4. There are many ways to do this. Some are harder than others. The point is that you provide the time, the metronome only provides a reference point.

    What I would love to see is a metronome that will play one every beat for the first two measures, and then switch to playing only a reference point.
  8. TaySte_2000


    Jun 23, 2001
    Manchester, UK
    Endorsing Artist: Mojohand, Subdecay, Overwater, Matamp
    I come on here for a bit friendly advice and get shouted at. But big wheel I have used a metronome before but at the moment I only have an electronic one thats in one of my effect pedals and its got a really harsh sound to it, so not only does it give me a headache but it also sounds like it's damaging my amp. I was only looking at the drum machine because I wanted to make a small studio and thought an external unit would would be more useful than a computer program, I just thought I could use the drum machine as a metronome.
  9. My advice,
    Get a decent metronome. If your timing is right, you shouldn't even be able to hear the thing. If you timing is off, then you will hear the tick tick tick tick. Yeah, it's irritating. that is why you improve your timing, so you don't hear it.

    Get the 'nome first, then if you still want one later on, get the drum machine.
  10. I like repetitive sounds, metronome ticks, dripping of water, as long as they're kinda muffled and not blaringly loud (like car accidents...but those aren't really repetitive) I don't think you'll have to worry about going insane....I don't think its happened to anyone, unless they also had a habit of hearing voices and imagining animals coming out of their walls.

    Drum machines are fancy and dandy and all, but metronome's are 1) cheaper, 2) better for you 3) a lot more handy in figuring out time etc.
  11. electricdemon3


    Jul 28, 2000
    Nah don't listen to them, get the drum machine. You can always create a pattern that is only a rim shot on all quarter notes and you have an instant metronome. Do that when you want to practice your timing. Then you won't be stuck with just a metronome, you will have another musical instrument that you can utilize in your recordings/compositions.
  12. jazzbo


    Aug 25, 2000
    San Francisco, CA
    Hey Big Wheel,

    I'm thinking about throwing out my metronome for a Yamaha 4000XL-TVKX-AZ quad modulator 3000 drum machine extravaganza! It's only $6,999.99 and I think metronomes are USELESS! Que piensas?!

    (covers head and ducks into corner of room)
  13. Blackbird

    Blackbird Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2000
    Feh, I know a hoax when I see one.:p

    (covers head and ducks into other corner of room)
  14. pigpen02


    Mar 24, 2002
    i've got fruity loops version something w/ my guitar pro resources and it's great, helps more than any metronome imo. its neat 'cause when designing drum beats, you can learn a lot about drumming and where accents go by plugging in the right stuff.

    i love it, its got great effects and sampler, guitar amp for recording, cheap, IMO much better than the grade school music class ticker.
  15. BillyBishop


    Feb 7, 2001
    I TOTALY agree with the fruity loops suggestion. Fruity loops is great.
  16. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member In Memoriam

    Oh well - twice in 3 or 4 years is OK I suppose and as part of a rich and varied vocabulary...:D
  17. Wrong Robot

    Wrong Robot Guest

    Apr 8, 2002

    You know bruce, you have ruined that word for me, I don't think I can ever use it now on without feeling asinine :p

  18. Wow...thats really harsh. I wouldn't expect something like THAT coming from a moderator...

    Anyways...I agree with TaySte...the metronome could get very annoying and cause headaches.

    If I was in his shoes,I'd go for the Drum machine...and if that isnt helpin' yah...take it back and try a metronome.

    EDIT: Maybe you can search for a used drum machine,for cheaper
  19. Hey guys

    I don't wanna start any trouble but I think that the drum machine may be the way to go. Because you can set up a track to play a simple click as well as play to drum grooves. Before everyone starts flaming let me say I own both and do most of my practising to a metronome. But the times where the drum machine become really useful is when you program in a drum groove that matches a particular bass line ie transcribe a drum groove and it's associated bass line. Then you can slow it down and try to play with the same feel you hear on the cd. This is the basic concept in some finger funk books I got from Anthony Vitti and I've found it really valuable in getting the right feel.

    I'll agree that your time gets better when you play to less subdivisions like when you use a metronome but on the flip side IME your groove can get some help from the drum machine. In the end do what works for you. C-YA and keep groovin

  20. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member In Memoriam

    You've got to be cruel, to be kind!!


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