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Double Mic'ing

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by chuc, Aug 25, 2013.

  1. chuc


    Jul 25, 2013
    OK, here's what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to get a certain tone for recording my bass. I have a Mesa M-Pulse600 & GK Neo 410 and it gets the snappy finger popping highs that I want, I recently went to GC and played on a GK 700rbII paired with a GK Neo 115 and it had the punchy lows that I love. My question is... I have mic'd my current setup with a LCD mic and use the DI from my cab, I get a good tone and I'm happy with it. My question is if I were to get the set up I played at GC, and mic'ed up that with a mic like the Shure Beta 52 as well as mic'ing my 410 with the LDC, would there be any issues? I know some of you have tried this. what do you think before I spent the grand on the other set up.
  2. Morning Beer

    Morning Beer

    Oct 2, 2009
    I'm no recording expert, but the mesa and the GK amps are pretty much polar opposites of each other. I think you might just prefer the GK sound.
  3. D.A.R.K.


    Aug 20, 2003
    I think if you use a beta 52 it will be quite different from the amp sound, due to the bulit in eq and frequency response.
    I'd consider researching mics and their frequency response characteristics, as well as their proximity response.
    If you are indeed trying to get exactly what you are hearing from a speaker cab, anyway.
  4. chuc


    Jul 25, 2013
    I get what you're saying. thanks for your responses guys.
  5. Mr. Foxen

    Mr. Foxen Commercial User

    Jul 24, 2009
    Bristol, UK
    Amp tinkerer at Ampstack
    Micing for recording or live? Live I think keep simple, recording, more is more.
  6. chuc


    Jul 25, 2013
    For recording. I don't know....I'm not really GASing for gear....I'm just looking for this sound and I get from my current set up when just playing live, however when recording, I feel like I'm lacking the lows. and it might just be in my mind. Like I said I do get close to what I want, I guess I'm trying too hard.
  7. You'll have the same issues with phase that you get mixing cabs live. It might sound great, it might blow mud chunks.
  8. You might get phase issues, much like using two different cabs live, or much like combining a mic and a DI. Personally I'd keep it simple and find one cab and one mic that I like, in my experience that gives the best and fastest results but if you have budget to experiment (or are in your own studio) then it's definitely worth trying, you might get some amazing tone that people on talkbass will be trying to emulate for the next 30 years.

    I've recorded bass with two rigs a few times before (one clean and one dirty), I'd get the placement right on whichever is the "main one" and then work with the mic on the second rig to get a good sounding phase relationship between the two. Note that if you screw this up you will actually decrease your low end, but you will probably end up using low and high pass filters to use the 15 for lows and the 4x10 for the rest.

    The Beta52 is pretty hyped, although it can work great pulled back around 10 inches off the cab as the boom from the proximity effect goes away. If you want that "darkness" of a dynamic but flatter response like a condenser you should try some broadcast dynamics (RE20, SM7, M88, MD421 ect).
  9. two fingers

    two fingers Opinionated blowhard. But not mad about it. Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 7, 2005
    Eastern NC USA
    Have you tried (dare I say it) lining out of the Mesa head into the board or even researching good preamps (possibly even pedal preamps) to get the tone you are looking for? Or for that matter, what kind of board and/or computer program are you using to record with? Just about any of either should allow you to plug directly in and get enough bass to take your face off. Why are you so dead set on micing it to begin with?
  10. seamonkey


    Aug 6, 2004
    Two mics, or a DI + a Mic might very well give you phasing problems and make the sound thinner. A good recording engineer will record each on separate tracks and then match the phase before any mixing.

    Consider DI, then re-amping to perfect the tone to your liking while you sit next to the recording engineer.
  11. chuc


    Jul 25, 2013
    I DI out of my Mesa head for the lows and Mic the cab for my highs. I play with my fingers really aggressive for an example
    forward to 1:14 on the video.
  12. TheRealKong


    Mar 17, 2011

    I prefer using DI + Microphone and I am well known by all the soundguys in my aerea for my wishes. Always soundet fine, I never had any phasing issues.

    I tell the soundguys I do not spend a whole lot of money for amps and cabs to use it as stage-monitor. I have my sound, and I want it to be heard. I'm cutting through fine, and sound fine together with my band. I always get a lots of compliments due to my sound.

    I learned, that the mix of both gives me more punch from the DI and a better sound from the microphone.

    It should be possible to have a DI-Box or a mixer with switchable phases, so if the phase-thing becomes an issue, a decent F.O.H.-guy should be able to solve this problem in no time.

    Otherwise I never used two microphones, neither for recording nor live.
  13. Bassmec


    May 9, 2008
    Ipswich UK
    Proprietor Springvale Studios
    Little labs make a brilliant thing called a phase tool which I use to place microphones where I want them for their sound and hook them up with a Sequis Motherload Dual Pro speaker simulator then correct for all phase anomalies, either with micro delays or hardware/software phase tools including simple track slipping a few samples either way.
  14. Dave W

    Dave W Supporting Member

    Mar 1, 2007
    White Plains
    Lets focus on this for a minute...

    How are you monitoring yourself to feel you are lacking lows? Through studio monitors, headphones, something else? If they are something with a flat response it may feel a little light sounding, but through a different system sound completely different.

    You should be able to add anything into/out of your tone in the recording process. If you use the DI as your base signal, and manipulate that to have as much lows as you're looking for, then add in the mic'd cab signal for whatever else you feel is missing.
  15. Mr. Foxen

    Mr. Foxen Commercial User

    Jul 24, 2009
    Bristol, UK
    Amp tinkerer at Ampstack
    If you want lows when recording, use a DI.
  16. seamonkey


    Aug 6, 2004
    Sounds like you've been lucky

    Read this if you are ever unlucky

    Sound engineers know this and probably just lower the mic so the phasing doesn't affect the quality.
  17. It depends on what you can afford. Always run a DI, no matter how many mics and other crap you have running.
  18. Wow, if bass travels 11ft in 10ms how does moving a mic 1/4" in or out make a difference?

    Phasing between cab/mic resultant and the DI is different for all frequencies, hence Bassmec's fantastical gizmos.

    For live work the best most of us can do is cross over between mic and DI and use a delay to align the crossover zone. I'm hoping to cut all that out with my new P2.