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Drummer & I don't anticipate the same

Discussion in 'Technique [BG]' started by edpal, Mar 30, 2013.


  1. edpal

    edpal Banned

    Oct 3, 2007
    In new group. Drummer is very steady but we have conflict on one original song (I'm almost to point of telling him to step off). Deal is, song is super steady but during one bridge part the guitarist plays a riff that keeps coming up a fraction short of next beat and even that is inconsistent. Drummer wants us to try and choke/anticipate the beat to accommodate the guitarist, saying "we're the rhythm section, we are supposed to follow him". The way I hear it, the guitarist finishes the lick and then hears us hit the downbeat, launching his next rep. of the lick. So I am dis-inclined to try to follow the guitarist - guitarist looks kind of embarrassed that the drummer goes on about it since it is underscoring his inconsistency too. Thoughts please.
     
  2. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    Could you record it both ways and determine which sounds better...to both bandmates and other parties that you trust?
     
  3. edpal

    edpal Banned

    Oct 3, 2007
    I'd love to record it, but it's so inconsistent and only two repeats in the one area that it's kind of hard to grab. Well, they'll be here in a couple hours, I'll see how it goes then. And we have a new lead guy so we have him to consider - they (guitars) are supposed to play the lick together. I'm hoping that will help underscore the issue one way or other. I'm willing to choke a 4 beat down to 3.82457 but it better be done darn consistently or I'm thinking it is kind of pointless to interrupt the groove.

    My other problem is the drummer is trying to tell me I should play the lick with the guitars. :scowl: we don't need 3 of us on it and we were playing this tune just fine before he showed up. The guitarist who wrote the song never voices an opinion(truely silent bob) so this is irritating. And I otherwise like this drummer and his playing a lot.Snap!
     
  4. Savage_Dreams

    Savage_Dreams

    Jan 8, 2007
    why not get a guitarist who can stay in time? why should 2 more people try to play it wrong because one person cant get it right?
     
  5. Stone Soup

    Stone Soup

    Dec 3, 2012
    I deleted my previous statement. I didn't know, at the time, your guitarist can't keep it straight for only 4 beats. I think your guitarist needs a little practice with a metronome, maybe.
     
  6. Since this is an original band doing an original song, it seems that the composition of the piece is not yet finalized and there are differences of opinion on what to do.

    Many passages can end on the "& of 4" or the "e of 4", or on the new "1". Compose the lick, try things out. Play , experiment.
     
  7. edpal

    edpal Banned

    Oct 3, 2007
    Practice went really good -other than the new lead guy showing up 50 minutes late which he has done all 3 times he's been here. We had actually discussed pitching him. Anyway, back on topic...
    Drummer and I kind of agreed that we'll keep the groove, the guitarist agreed when I vioced it that yes, he was leaping into his riff based on when we hit the downbeat so we should basically maintain the groove and he was the one who needed to conform to us. HE's a good guitarist and the riff he plays there isn't wrong - we(drummer and I) jus need to accept the quirkieness and do the groove.
    I love Talkbass - has saved the life of many a bandmate.
     
  8. Clef_de_fa

    Clef_de_fa Guest

    Dec 25, 2011
    It may be a riff in 7/8 or something like that. Maybe counting it and make sure everyone does it instead of guessing each time ?
     
  9. AltGrendel

    AltGrendel Squire Jag SS fan. Supporting Member

    May 21, 2009
    Mid-Atlantic USA.
    I like this, throw in one bar of 5/4. Done.
     
  10. David A. Davis

    David A. Davis Supporting Member

    Apr 5, 2008
    Summerville, SC
    Yeah, ah, you and the drummer are the rhythm section, but, they're supposed to follow you two.
     
  11. edpal

    edpal Banned

    Oct 3, 2007
    Agreed. Funny part of that - I think less than 10% of drummer's I've played with will speed up/slow down if I try to dial in the tempo but they expect you follow them always. I think some drummers don't feel the "correct" tempo for a song because so few of them seem to sing much, and for songs with lyrics everything needs to support the vocals both tonally and feel. I think everyone in a band can benefit from at least occasionally practicing a song and trying to sing it - can add great clarity to where the tempo needs to change,etc.
     
  12. thewildest

    thewildest

    May 25, 2011
    Montreal
    Well, if a relative measure to a 4/4 rhythm is 3.82457, the good news is that your tune is written in 8001/4, which is a very unusual time signature... I've tried 7/4, 11/4 and 21/4 once, but never 8001/4.

    Perhaps your guitar player came from the future, or he has a dominant gene 8001 in his DNA, the fairly known GLRDA3 alpha-3 (subunit of the neuronal glycine receptor, a ligand-gated chloride channel composed of ligand-binding alpha and structural beta polypeptides).

    In any case and in spite of the best possible scientific explanations, I would replace the guitar player... probably he just sucks.
     
  13. jallenbass

    jallenbass Supporting Member Commercial User

    May 17, 2005
    Bend, Oregon
    Corrected.
     
  14. First off, at least y'all recognize that there's an issue. If you didn't, then y'all got worse problems then not hitting the beat at the same time.

    Good bands and good music really is like a conversation in a foreign language. With enough practice, you can be fluent in your instrument and rarely find a musical situation that you can't at least have a musical conversation with the other players. Sometimes the conversation is one sided, like a preacher, and your role (and the drummer's) is to be the guys shouting "Amen" and "Hallelujah!" However, it's rare that a song is that one sided for the whole song, and it's usually much more of a discussion. If the guitarist isn't listening and responding to the rhythm section, then there may be a problem with him.

    At the same time, if the guitarist is always screwing it up, it's probably easier and quicker to just anticipate the guitarist. However, that means that you need more consistency from your guitarist, even if he consistently gets it wrong in the exact same way every time.

    There's no good answer. If all three parties involved aren't actively listening and responding to everyone, then the conversation breaks down and things get awkward musically.

    Getting everyone to listen and respond better is basically asking them to increase their musicianship. That's not easily done, and there's no quick fix.
     

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