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Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by Benjamin Strange, Jul 22, 2004.

  1. Benjamin Strange

    Benjamin Strange Commercial User

    Dec 25, 2002
    New Orleans, LA
    Owner / Tech: Strange Guitarworks
    I've been reading the Dune prequels by Frank Herbert's son, and I am blown away! They are really good! It's creepy how similar his writing style is to his fathers; it seems like Frank himself wrote these.

    Now it's been a while since I've read the others, and my memory is a little fuzzy. Help me out:

    1. Who's ends up being the Kwizerach Haderach? I've heard theories that it's Paul Atredies, others say it's Leto II, others say it's actually Duncan Idaho.

    2. What were the Teliaxu axotl tanks? I seem to remember something about female bodies being used, but I'm not sure.

    3. What was the relationship between the sandworms and the spice? Didn't Liett Kynes figure it out with spiceblows, sandtrout, and the like? I can't remember to save my life.

    4. Didn't they make a made for TV movie about it? Is it any good?

    I'm sure I've got a million other questions, but I can't think of any more presently. Post your answers/Dune theories here!
  2. Hey Benjamin Strange...
  3. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the new series. They're still really good, but the original ones are still the king. Yes, Frank Herbert did partially write them as well. They were mostly taken from Herbert's manuscripts, which his son and Kevin Anderson edited and added to...which explains the similarity in writing style.

    It's been a while since I read the original series, so I can't answer most of your questions knowingly enough. I can answer #4. Yes, the first three in the series were made into movies by the Sci-Fi channel. Dune being in the movie "Dune," and Dune Messiah and Children of Dune being combined into one movie called "Children of Dune." The movies are very good. I own both of them on DVD. The first one is MUCH MUCH MUCH better than the horrible adaptation of the book done in the 80's. If you like the books, you'll love the movies.
  4. Mudfuzz


    Apr 3, 2004
    I haven't read the pre's yet
    but from what I remember from the first book.
    1. I pretty sure it's Paul
    2. Can't help you.
    3. The spice is the worm, the worm is the spice
    4. Yes, and it sucked monkeys; and them some...........man did they suck!
  5. Thee


    Feb 11, 2004
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    1) Paul
    2) It's never actually revealed in the original series (as far as I can remember, I'm pretty solid with the first three, haven't read the last 3 in years), but yeah, wombs it is.
    3) Yeah, it's vauge with me too, but the little makers, sand trout, I think when they are developing, expel it. Or something. We need help here.
    4) Yes, they did, and I prefer the 80s David Lynch version. I mean, Sting's in it! C'mon!

    I recommend anyone interested in Dune read "Dreamer of Dune." It's Frank's biography written by his son.

    Anyone else pissed that "Dune 7" is going to be two books? Kinda ruins the "two trilogies and a bridging novel" thing that Frank had going on. Bunch of wankers.
  6. mr e

    mr e

    Nov 17, 2003
    although i love the fact that sci-fi made these films, i cannot watch them
    the lighting is theatricaly poor, and then washed out by their cameras

    sci-fi will, from time to time, show the extended david lynch version
    which, imo, kicks the known universe's ass
  7. I've actually heard that the Dune prequels don't measure up to the original books... that they are missing the mystical and philosophical feel of the original 6 books. I've heard that stuff some that was accepted Dune history was changed... like originally, Holtzman was supposed to be a human consciousness trapped in a ship's computer, floating through space and rediscovered every so often, and eventually he is destroyed at the end of the Butlerian Jihad. In this new Dune history, he seems to be an actual, living human, alive at the time of the Jihad... other changes have been made as well, I think. :scowl:
  8. Frijoles Negros

    Frijoles Negros

    Mar 21, 2004
    Theres spoilers all in here. Damn. I havent had the time to read them yet.
  9. Juneau


    Jul 15, 2004
    Dallas, TX.
    I liked the movies they made for SCI-Fi, allthough they have no where near the feel of the first movie. However, it contains more of the story that was left out of the original movie. And of course, they go beyond the original movie too, I believe they made 3 of them, but maybe only Dune and Children of Dune.
  10. Adam Barkley

    Adam Barkley Mayday!

    Aug 26, 2003
    Jackson, MS
    1. Not sure but I believe all of them were in the different books, Paul 1-2, Leto 3-whenever. Not sure about Duncan

    2. Those are the female Teliaxu. That is why nobody has ever seen them.

    3. Sandtrout consume water and later become ssandworms, I believe the prespice mass is worm crap. Not exactly sure on that though

    4. Passable, like the classic film with better graphics.
  11. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    The "secret" of Dune is that there is plenty of water about - but that the sandworms life cycle traps it all and makes the planet a desert. Liet Kynes has plans to re-plant Dune with vegetation that will make it a "garden of Eden" - but this will effectively kill off the worms and end Spice production. This is the big tension - Spice must flow and all attempts to grow sandworms on other planets have failed, but Spice is essential to the economy of the universe - as this is how space travel is achieved, when Navigators plot the course, through folds in space. Without Spice they can't do this and that's why Dune is the most crucial world in the universe.
  12. Adam Barkley

    Adam Barkley Mayday!

    Aug 26, 2003
    Jackson, MS
    As always Mr. Lindfield, you seem to be the most accurately informed. Or rather, the best at explaining things,

    I re-read Dune a few months ago, but I never began re-reading the rest of the series.
  13. Benjamin Strange

    Benjamin Strange Commercial User

    Dec 25, 2002
    New Orleans, LA
    Owner / Tech: Strange Guitarworks
    I rented the Sci-Fi Channel version of Dune yesterday - ugh. It's so bad. Why do people insist on making people from the future look ridiculous?

    I'm still not sure about the Kwizerach Haderach thing. Jessica was told by the Bene Gesserit to have a daughter, and then that daughter was supposed to bear the KH. But she rebelled and had Paul. So was he only an almost KH, and his son was the true KH, or did Paul screw up the whole plan, and the true KH that the Bene Gesserit expected never truly came about?
  14. bassturtle


    Apr 9, 2004
    Like sands through the hour glass....so are the days of our lives.
  15. Hawkeye

    Hawkeye Canuck Amateur

    More importantly, I want to know whether the Kwizerach Haderach was a finger-style or pick player, which of the books cover that, Headbangers of Dune?
  16. Adam Barkley

    Adam Barkley Mayday!

    Aug 26, 2003
    Jackson, MS
    The KH was simply a person who could "relive" both his female and male ancestors lives in his mind. Both Leto Paul could do that. So I think both were a KH. I think the Bene Gesserit KH plan wasn't exactly sure about what would make a KH, remember Count Fenring was almost supposed to be one.

    In one of the later books, one of the Duncan clones "wakes up" and learns about the hundreds of other Duncans from over the years. I think that makes him like half of a KH, :D

    Wow, now I feel like a bigger nerd than the people in the Grayson thread.
  17. Benjamin Strange

    Benjamin Strange Commercial User

    Dec 25, 2002
    New Orleans, LA
    Owner / Tech: Strange Guitarworks
    Nah. Those people can't read books without pictures in them. :D
  18. danshee

    danshee Banned

    May 28, 2004
    Chicago, Illinois

    The movies they made for Sci Fi were supposed to be more like the book, but man they were just boring. No feel at all. David Lynch did the one in the eighties and although it was different from the book, made a much better movie. Not to mention the awesome soundtrack by Toto.
  19. Kurisu


    Nov 19, 2003
    Saskatoon SK
    1. The KH was the first one to have achieved prescience, and the male version of a reverand mother. So it was Paul. Leto II was even more than Paul, a KH + abombination, but that doesn't really matter, since the key part is "first".

    2. yep. Teliaxu females are basically incubators.

    3. Bruce got it right - sandtrout basically join together to create a membrane around water so that the sandworms can live. All the water is buried under the desert.

    4. New sci-fi movies are so much better than the Lynch version it's not even funny. Lynch version is fun, for nostalgia.. but come on. Weirding way? Pulease.

    5. I can't even finish House Atredies. Sniff. It's just too difficult. Damn you Brian and Paul Anderson for not being better writers!! Hint: if we know all about everything, don't try to build suspense in the usual way - why? because we know everything you're try to hold us in suspense about! sheesh.
  20. /geekmode

    Ok one thing I don't fully understand about Dune.. perhaps Mr. Lindfield can answer this. One of the commandments prescribed by the Butlerian Jihad states that "No machine may be created in the likeness of a human mind"... meaning no computers. Yet spaceflight exists... at any point does Herbert explain how something as complicated as a starship is able to operate without any onboard computers? Even something as simple as orbital insertion and making planetfall would require a multitude of calculations, right? Do all Guild ships have Mentats onboard to make these calculations? /geekmode