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dutch government collapses!?!

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by Brad Barker, Oct 16, 2002.

  1. Brad Barker

    Brad Barker

    Apr 13, 2001
    berkeley, ca
    i just read the report on yahoo news.

    what i need to ask is is it as nearly as bad as i think it is?

    my first impression was of anarchy in the benelux...but then i got to reading the report...

    there was one particular quote which was essentially "this government was the shortest lived one since WWII."

    so i guess this isn't the first time it's happened?

    is everything going to be fine? relatively fine?

  2. Brad Barker

    Brad Barker

    Apr 13, 2001
    berkeley, ca
    some background info:

    apparently, this government was a three-party system (and was dependent on all three parties funcitoning?).

    one of the parties was dealt a serious blow when its leader was assassinated (i remember allodox talking about this awhile back; i think he called the assassination the end of democracy in the netherlands as he knows it).

    that party just never recovered. a number of people were vying for leadership of it.

    then the party just collapsed and took the gov't with it!



    [edit: here's the link-

  3. Brad Barker

    Brad Barker

    Apr 13, 2001
    berkeley, ca
  4. So wait, they're part of the "axis of evil" now, but we're trying to have security talks with them......way to go diplomacy.

    I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

    PS:sorry, little off topic there.
  5. Boplicity

    Boplicity Supporting Member

    I read that the Dutch cabinet will run the country under a caretaker capacity until general elections take place. They were scheduled to be held next May 15, until this crisis. No word on when elections will be held now.
  6. In a multiparty system, there is rarely an outright majority, so two or more parties must agree to ally on important voting matters, let the bigger party's leader become prime minister/chancellor/whatever and divide cabinet posts in proportion to the coalition partners' sizes. When a parliamentary democracy's "government collapses," it means that one of the parties forming the ruling coalition has left the coalition over a policy or personality disagreement.

    When this occurs, either elections are called, or an attempt is made to form a new coalition.

    So when you hear that Italy's government has collapsed 40 times since the end of World War II, it doesn't mean that there have been 40 military coups there. It means that the ruling coalition, which is never particularly strong there, has lost a key member and is now no longer in the majority.

    Whether this system is superior or inferior to the strictly two-party system in the US (and the way the Constitution is set up ensures that only two parties will ever be meaningful at any one time) is up to the PoliSci majors to decide.
  7. Brad Barker

    Brad Barker

    Apr 13, 2001
    berkeley, ca
    what a relief!

    pretty sensationalistic, news can be.

    so the only thing that needs to get restructured is the third party, correct? then the system will be operating smoothly again (until the next time...)?
  8. rickbass

    rickbass Supporting Member

    Exactamundo and well stated Peter.

    What's the big deal? It means nothing in "the big picture."
  9. Just a little bit more background. The party in question is called the LPF (lijst Pim Fortyn) and named after its assasinated leader.
    The only reason they got a lot of votes is because of the assasination. A lot of people thought it cool to vote for a dead guy. The rest of the party consists of a lot of incompitant people who mostly are kicked out of other partys before.

    Personally I'm glad that the kabinet fell. Hopefully people vote with their minds this time (though I wouldn't bet on it, there are a lot of stupid people here).

  10. PoliSci major here, and neither is superior. With an informed public *we dont have this* and moral politicians *I wont go into this*, any democracy would work, with rare exception
  11. Ok.. so here's the deal..

    this year was a total horror year for politics..

    there was this great politician called " Pim Fortuyn ".. a couple of days before the elections he got shot by some crazy buttmunch, and his party called " Lijst Pim Fortuyn " ( LPF for short ) was left alone without a leader..

    Because many, many people agreed with Pim's ideas, his party got many, many votes.. but even more people voted for his party " out of respect " for his death..

    Problem was : his party was without a leader.. no leadership leads to disorder..

    His party was one of the 3 big parties that had the most votes, and those 3 parties form the parlement ( ministers + vice president )..

    From the beginning ( about 3 months ago ) the LPF was constantly in battle amongst eachother.. because a new leader had to be chosen, etc, etc..

    the minister of economics ( mr. Heinsbroek ) and the minister of health ( mr. Bomhof ) had a personal dissatisfaction with eachother, because mr. Bomhof had some strange ideas of doing politics ( interrupting speakers at debates, which is very rude, etc, etc ).. their personal struggle was also fought out in the parlement.. the whole government started to interfere..

    this tuesday the late Prince claus was burried, but at the same time the LPF had a crisis-meeting to solve the arguement between mr. Heinsbroek and mr. Bomhof once and for all.. they were both fired..

    but the 2 other parties that were in the partlement were kind of fed up with the struggles in the LPF and decided to dismantle the treaty... so the government collapsed..
  12. additional info + my personal opinion..

    Pim Fortuyn was, in my opinion, one of the best polticians this country has ever known.. some of his ideas were kind of right-wing-ish, but the mojority of him was left-wing-ish..
    the media overdid his right-wing ideas, and lacked to mention his left-wing ideas..

    myself, having read + own all of his books, was not blinded by the media.. the media tells you what they want you to know.. the media does not always tell the truth.

    the LPF was a new party.. Pim Fortuyn had to form his party only few months prior to the elections..
    Pim Fortuyn himself was a hardcore oldschool poltician ( he had been in politics for over 21 years ), but the majority of his party were freshmen.. political rookies... so it's no wonder that his party wasn't a very stable party.. every party that just started out is unstable.. but because of the parties popularity ( 1 out of 3 biggest parties in Holland ), the party got more attention by the media, etc.. if it were a smaller party there wouldn't be much of a problem.. but becuase of the gigantic, unsuspected growth of the party.. well you get the idea..

    Personally i did NOT vote for the LPF.. for me, the moment Pim Fortuyn died, my vote for the LPF died with him.. alltho i'm still in favor of the right-wing-ish ideal. don't get me wrong.. i might prefer the right-wing-ish ideas, but i'm not far-right. e.g. i disagree with the immigration-policies, i am a supporter of death-penalty & corporal punnishments, etc.. but i am not a racist or anything like that ( in fact.. i am quite attracted to black and asian women :) ) but another side of me believes in the idea of communism : there is work for everyone and we all live and work together to improve the wellfare of the nation and not the personal wellfare..

    Disclaimer : this post is partly based on facts and partly based on opinions. if you dissagree with my opinion, send a reaction in a PM, do NOT spread your comments in this thread, because we don't want it to turn into a flame-thread. thanx :)
  13. Allodox, thanks for telling the story.

    I think the party should have stepped down the moment their leader was murdered. LPF = Pim Fortuyn, the rest are just a bunch of political amateurs IMO. Hence the recent events. They didn't stand a chance without Pim.

    Same disclaimer as Allodox :)

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