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E# Maj 7th with a corkscrew? Huh?

Discussion in 'General Instruction [BG]' started by BottomFeederJax, Jan 24, 2008.


  1. Im a total noob to theory, Ive been playing for 6 months and I just dont understand this stuff, Ive read a bunch of stuff on it and my gf has tried to teach me some stuff, but I just cant get it.
    The only thing I think I get is that Major has sharps and Minor has flats, is that right? And I also dont understand what makes it a 7th or 3rd on any other number. Im sorry Im too dumb to get this:bawl:, but can someone please explain it to me in very simple terms? Or at least point me somewhere that explains it well?
     
  2. brake

    brake

    Jun 23, 2003
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    The Major/Minor thing you posted is wrong. Learn about key signatures, my friend.
     
  3. PocketGroove82

    PocketGroove82

    Oct 18, 2006
    Japan
    There is a permanent, failsafe way to construct any scale. Each scale has it's own "formula" of half-steps and whole-steps, and it is always the same, on every instrument, every day of the week.

    A half-step is the difference in the pitches created by moving from one fret, to the next adjacent fret. So, it's like going from fret 1 to fret 2 on the E string. Or like going from fret 7 to fret 6 on the G string. (If you look on the piano, these are like side by side keys)

    A Whole-step is the different in the pitches created by moving from one fret to another pitch which is 2 frets away. So, it's like going from fret 1 to fret 3 on the E string. Or like going from fret 7 to fret 5 on the G string. (If you look on the piano, these are keys which have one other key in between them.

    If you got that, then you can pretty much construct any scale out there if you know the formula of halfsteps and wholesteps.

    The major scale (sometimes called the Ionian mode) is always

    Going Up: Whole/Whole/Half/Whole/Whole/Whole/Half the
    Going Down: Half/Whole/Whole/Whole/Half/Whole/Whole

    But we really only need to know WWHWWWH, since when we go down...we just repeat the same pitches/frets/notes.

    The Natural Minor (sometimes called the Aeolian mode) Formula is always:

    Going Up: Whole/Half/Whole/Whole/Half/Whole/Whole
    Going Down: Whole/Whole/Half/Whole/Whole/Half/Whole

    But really, we only need to know WHWWHWW going up, since going down we just repeat what we played going up.


    You can learn all the key sigs. and see WHY this works and how the notes these formulas manifest all naturally occur within a key signature. But learning this formula is a great help, infact. Simply knowing these two formulas has gotten MANY HUNDREDS of drummers through Music Theory 101.

    I hope that is simple enough of an explaination.

    Matt
     
  4. Valerus

    Valerus

    Aug 4, 2005
    Austin, Texas
    Nice explanation, man.
     
  5. mutedeity

    mutedeity

    Aug 27, 2007
    Sydney
    What will learning about key signatures teach him?
     
  6. mutedeity

    mutedeity

    Aug 27, 2007
    Sydney
    The "number thing" as in 5th , 7th and so on refers to the position of the note in a scale. If it is called the 5th that means it is the 5th note in the scale. Starting from the tonic, or root note, which we refer to as 1, you will play 1 2 3 4 and then the 5th.

    Also since we use the major scale as a comparison, which is as PocketGroove 82 described, WWHWWWH, or tone,tone,semitone,tone,tone,tone,semitone, as I like to refer to it, anything like a #4 or b7 will be comparisons to the major scale. That means that the #4 is one semitone higher than the 4th degree of the major scale and the b7 is one semitone lower than the 7th degree of the major scale, for example.

    A pretty brief explaination, but there you have it. By the way learning about key signatures isn't going to teach you this stuff at all. It has its benefits in being able to pick a key when you read a score but it has nothing to do with understanding how relative diatonalism functions.
     
  7. Ok, that actually helped alot. Thanks sooo much man, really.
     
  8. The WWHWWWH thing is great too, I kinda get it, Im gonna read about Keys now. thanks again.
     
  9. BetterBottomEnd

    BetterBottomEnd <- Not me I just like looking at her

    Jan 9, 2007
    Cable Wi
    www.musictheory.net is a great site to work with whenever you have some free time. Some great lessons and also some nice ear training and other cool trainers.
     
  10. BottomFeederJax you should find a good teacher to explain all of this basic theory stuff to you. Once you grasp the basic concepts you will be able to explore and understand more complex music theory topics. This will definitely take your playing to a new level and quite possibly your checking account. Bassist's who can read music and have a decent working knowledge of theory and improvisation usually don't have much of a problem finding a gig.
     
  11. Bassist4Life

    Bassist4Life

    Dec 17, 2004
    Buffalo, NY
    +1

    This is a terrific suggestion!

    This website walks you through note reading, rhythmic reading, intervals, scale construction, triads (chords), and so much more.

    There is even ear training. Don't feel like you need to rush through all the material. Do a little each day and revisit things you think you "know".

    It will make sense over time. Don't give up. Be patient. This stuff doesn't happen overnight.

    Peace,
    Joe
     
  12. BTW it is much easier to think of E#Maj7 as FMaj7..you probably won't see E# very often but you will see F quite often. Check out enharmonic tones in a theory book or ask a teacher. E# is the same note, pitch, fret, as F. B#=C A#=Bb etc.
     
  13. mutedeity

    mutedeity

    Aug 27, 2007
    Sydney
    I think the title was more for effect than to actually name a chord though. Even so I think you could theoretically have E#Maj7 if you had a scale with D## and E#, theoretically that is. The tones would have to be E#, G##, B# and D##.
     
  14. Valerus

    Valerus

    Aug 4, 2005
    Austin, Texas
    Thanks!!
     
  15. Cool, thanks everyone for helping me out, its cool that you all care enough to take time and help a noob, other sites Ive have been on just call me a fag for asking questions, so thanks abunch.
     
  16. Bassist4Life

    Bassist4Life

    Dec 17, 2004
    Buffalo, NY
    No problem. That's why we're here brother.

    Peace,
    Joe
     
  17. Marcury

    Marcury High and Low

    Aug 19, 2007
    Mid Hudson Valley, NY
    Theoretically yes, but since it's enharmonic to FMaj why even go there?
     
  18. mutedeity

    mutedeity

    Aug 27, 2007
    Sydney
    Just because you can. That is my whole point.
     
  19. The_Orlonater

    The_Orlonater

    Jun 6, 2007
    I thought of a few tricks to help me play my scales.

    My minor 7th is always a whole step behind my root note.

    My Major 7th is always a half step behind my root note.

    My Minor 6th is always a string below and a half step below.?
    Ex: You're on C(A string) and you go down to G# (Ab)(E string)

    My Major 6th is the same way, but an extra half step.
    Ex: You're on C again, and you down to A on the (E string)

    My Perfect 4th(Nor Major, Nor Minor) is right above my root.


    My Perfect 5th is a whole step away from my 4th.

    My 2nd is a whole step away from my root.

    My Minor 3rd is like you're going to play the 5th ,but backwards(I'm not a good explainer as you can see, lol.)
    Ex: You're on C on the A string and you go to Eb on the D string.

    My Major 3rd is a half step away from my Minor 3rd.

    I think you know where the octave is, lol.

    I'll give you some example of modes of these scales.

    Harmonic Minor: Minor Scale with a Major 7th

    Melodic Minor: Minor Scale with Major 6th and 7th.(The descending is a Natural Minor scale, though.

    Mixolydian: Major scale with a Minor 7th

    Arabic: Flat 2nd and 6th of a Major Scale.

    Phygrian: A little different, Flat 2nd, 6th, and a Minor 7th.

    (Both these scales sound Egyptain/Middle Eastern)

    Diminished: This is just a whole step and half step pattern for 8 different notes + your octave.

    Remember Major is: WWHWWWH
    And Minor is: WHWWHWW

    I hope this helped, I could've made a mistake somewhere ,but I've been only playing for a year.

    P.S.: Arpeggios are the Root, 3rd, and 5th.(The 3rd makes it Minor or Major)
    You should also learn some chord theory, it'll help you create some bass lines.

    I know this is all tricky at first, but after a while you'll get it.

    Best wishes.:bassist:
     
  20. jazzbo

    jazzbo

    Aug 25, 2000
    San Francisco, CA
    As always, please refer to my homepage.
     
  21. Primary

    Primary TB Assistant

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