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E&W Power Amps

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by ebozzz, Apr 8, 2002.


  1. ebozzz

    ebozzz Supporting Member

    May 17, 2001
    Denver, Colorado
    This is for Bob Lee or anyone that might have some experience with E&W power amps. First of all, I've never heard of them but the dealer states that he has had such success with them that he dropped a QSC line in favor of them. The price is right but I don't know a lot about their reliability, noise and tone. Here's a link to the dealer site. There's a link on the page that will take you to the specs for the various amps. Let me know what you think. Thanks. :)

    E&W Power Amps
     
  2. ebozzz

    ebozzz Supporting Member

    May 17, 2001
    Denver, Colorado
    Here's a few words from the dealer in question in response to a few questions that I posed to him:

    Any thoughts?
     
  3. ebozzz

    ebozzz Supporting Member

    May 17, 2001
    Denver, Colorado
    Alright. I'm officially talking to my self here! :D
     
  4. Bob Lee (QSC)

    Bob Lee (QSC) In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio! Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jul 3, 2001
    Costa Mesa, Calif.
    Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
    Hi ebozz,

    They're a fairly new import into the USA. I know Mark Hellinger, the US distributor, through www.live-audio.com, and he's a decent guy and a longtime QSC user as well. We haven't gotten our hands on an E&W amp here at QSC yet.
     
  5. ebozzz

    ebozzz Supporting Member

    May 17, 2001
    Denver, Colorado
    Thanks for the reply man. I'm definitely not trying to get Bob into any hassles as I really appreciate what he has to offer this forum. it would not be right to do that regardless. The dealer in question just hinted that QSC might have completed some testing of the E&W amps. I just wanted to see if there was any insight that Bob could provide without jeopardizing his livelyhood.

    As for contacting him directly, I always try to avoid that if possible. I would welcome any opinions that were sent to me off forum via email or PM. Click here or here to send me a message if you so desire.

    I'm not trying to get anyone to to say that E&W is better than QSC. I would just like to hear what someone who definitely has more expertise than I do, feels about the product if there is anything that he can offer. I remember having a conversation with Jeff Genzler of Genz Benz about amplifiers. When he was asked about various amps manufactured by some of his competitors, Jeff simply chose to state why he felt that his product would be a better option. based on that I was able to form a clearer opinion of what I felt was best for me.

    The 2 ohm thing was the first thing that jumped out at me also and that's what caused me to contact the dealer. I know how some dealers sell what they feel that they can make the most money on but I know that there are lessor known products out there that are of high quality. Genz Benz would be an example of that. I trying to do my homework. These amps may be the real thing or they could be a joke. That's what I'd like to try to find out. Thanks. :)
     
  6. ebozzz

    ebozzz Supporting Member

    May 17, 2001
    Denver, Colorado
    That's all I need to hear Bob. Thank you very much for your reply! :)
     
  7. chucko58

    chucko58

    Jan 17, 2002
    Silicon Valley, CA, USA
    I paid for all my gear myself. Well, me and MasterCard.
    From a brief look at their web page, E&W would seem to be going after the PLX with their power amps. The fact that their amps are optimized for 4 ohm loads doesn't impress me.

    I'll stick with QSC, thanks.
     
  8. ebozzz

    ebozzz Supporting Member

    May 17, 2001
    Denver, Colorado
    About the most that I'll ever run is a 4 ohm per channel chucko and the dealer did state that these amps will run at 2 ohms. You just won't get more power when running at that lower impedance. I don't know that that's necessarily a bad thing if you don't need to run at that impedance. All things being equal (price, quality/reliability, tone, etc.), I would also opt to go with the QSC.
     
  9. xax712

    xax712

    Dec 25, 2001
    Northwest Arkansas
    How much are these E&W amps running in comparison to the QSC's. There is one thing I'm finding appealing that hasn't been mentioned. The only QSC amps below 1200 watts are the RMX's and they are cheap but weigh a butt load. So I only need about 800 watts for the system I'm putting together and had pretty much decided on te RMX, but if these things are cost efficient I might consider them.
    Thanks,
    Brad
     
  10. Hi, Mark here;

    In response to:

    As far as I know: Volts squared = watts x resistance. The voltage of the E&W amps are geared towards a 4 ohm load, in that the powersupply cannot supply any higher voltage than what is delivered at full power into 4 ohms. Yes, the voltage comming into the powersupply is constant at 117v, and the current is what varies (on that side) however the output stage of the amp varies the voltage (not the current) and when you hit the limit of the voltage supplied by the power supply to the output stage, that's it, there ain't no more, but I could be wrong...and this won't be the first time.

    Many field reports (and my own experience) tell that the amps hold up well to a 2 ohm stereo load, but neither myself, the factory, or any of the users I'm aware of have hard proof of significantly higher power output at the 2 ohm load as opposed to the 4 ohm load. Therefore, I stick with reporting the information that I know and is documented. The amps seem to run cool, and don't get weird at two ohms... (or any weirder than most any other decent amp). I not afraid to run them there, but I don't do it by design.

    As far as more power via more current at the two ohm load, to my understanding, when the powersupply is fully tapped on voltage, yes, additional current will flow, but I suspect this would be with the red lights on (you know the ones on the front that say "clip" next to them). Maybe someone can set me streight on this since that's beyond my knowledge. See...I don't build them, I just run them, and report on my observations. I'm sure there's a EE out there that has a better handle on this than I.

    Best Regards,
     
  11. Ebozzz strikes again!!!!!



    Russ....
     
  12. ebozzz

    ebozzz Supporting Member

    May 17, 2001
    Denver, Colorado
    Simply a quest for knowledge Russ! ;) You know that I'm always on the hunt for high quality at a bargain! :D I'm seriously looking at these E&W amps.
     
  13. I was going to say something, but I'll just email you instead!!

    No use getting both of us in hot water!!

    Russ.
     
  14. ebozzz

    ebozzz Supporting Member

    May 17, 2001
    Denver, Colorado
    Hey PBG,

    I think what Mark meant was that he has not been provided with any documented facts of what the 2 ohm output of these amps are. The way I interpret what he said, and of course I could be wrong, is that he sticks with informing people about the 4 ohm ratings of the amps as he knows for sure what they are.

    Again, I could be wrong.
     
  15. VicDamone

    VicDamone

    Jun 25, 2000
    Is the back pannel as flexable as the PLX? I like the QSC for many reasons but what sticks out the most is that it's got the juice and I haven't heard of any breakdowns here.
    Still there's that damn fan...
     
  16. ebozzz

    ebozzz Supporting Member

    May 17, 2001
    Denver, Colorado
    Here's the back for the 1000, 1500 and 2000 watts amps.
    [​IMG]

    This is the back for the 500 and 800 watt amps.
    [​IMG]

    The link that I posted above will take you to the site. Check it out.
     
  17. xax712

    xax712

    Dec 25, 2001
    Northwest Arkansas
    How much are the E&W's running?
     
  18. Hi Psycho Bass Guy, Mark here;

    I think we are talking about the same thing, just using different language. Sorry about fumbling through my past posting so miserably. It was the end of a LONG day.

    First off, the factory hasn't breifed me on much of any of this. They seem to make pretty good amps. Their English version supporting documentation is pretty weak. But then I also believe published specifications are not the final word. It's a big world, and there are some wonderful products available out there that do not have wide ranging name recognition, or especially impressive supporting documentation. I admit, the E&W amps probably fall into this catagory.

    The following is an assemblage of my own layperson's understanding.

    Sure, amperage (current) fluctuates in the output stage, but if the load is basically constant, the changes in voltage are what generally drive the changes in amperage. I don't believe the two operate independently (at least in these amps). To my limited understanding: at a given voltage, across a given resistance, there will be only one resultant amperage. Example: 8 ohms, and 50 volts results in exactly 312.50 watts. 312.50 watts associated with 50 volts will be accompanied with 6.25 amps. If such an amplifier is capable of supplying a maximum of 50 volts to the rails, certainly the only way to increase the wattage of the amp is to lower the resistance of the load. Any amplifier should produce more wattage at 2 ohms as opposed to 4. For how long, and to what degree of quality, that is another issue.

    As far as the E&W amps go, the math tells us that they should produce more power at 2 ohms as opposed to 4 (if they don't melt down). I just don't have any documentation of operations at 2 ohms to pass on. To my experience they tolerate 2 ohms reasonably well, I just don't have any hard evidence of how well they tolerate 2 ohms, or what the "real" performance of the 2 ohm load is. Frankly, it hasn't been much of an issue till now. I do know that the rail voltage is limited, and certainly the current is limited (as it is in any amplifier that at least has a fuse). Beyond that, I haven't performed my own "lab" tests of 2 ohm performance, and the factory hasn't supplied me their data (basically because I haven't asked for it). I can't tell you if the current is limited beyond simple fusing, but I suspect it is.

    In my opinion, if you are configuring your system to run at 2 ohms, I believe an amplifier such as the QSC PLX, which to my understanding is designed from the ground up to be a 2 ohm amp, should be considered. The QSC PLX amplifier (and many other QSC products) is a wonderful piece of craftsmanship, and well worth the price if your requirements demand that level of performance. If, on the other hand, your configuration is for 4 ohms, then an amplifier that is designed as a 4 ohm amp, but will tolerate 2 ohm operation could be a cost effective alternative to an amplifier that is designed to operate comfortably at 2 ohms.

    As a side note, I'm wondering how long it will be till the bar is raised to the 1 ohm level? I'm sure that in 10 years or less, a 2 ohm amp just won't be suitable for some. Of course, I know folks that think they need a 4 wheel drive who live in Arizona, and never leave pavement.

    Best Regards,
     
  19. Just so you guys are clear, you really can't just say that because Power = Voltage squared / Impedence that 2 ohms must have a signinficant amount more power. The electronics inside the amplifier are more complicated than this. Otherwise, when you half your impedence, you double your wattage, and we know that this isn't true. Otherwise my SWR would pump out 700W rms into a 2 ohm load, and it surely doesn't.

    Geoff
     
  20. Bob Lee (QSC)

    Bob Lee (QSC) In case you missed it, I work for QSC Audio! Gold Supporting Member Commercial User

    Jul 3, 2001
    Costa Mesa, Calif.
    Technical Communications Developer, QSC Audio
    Below the clipping point, Geoff, that is the relationship between load impedance and power. If you halve the load impedance, it draws twice the current for a given output voltage, and thus it receives twice the power.

    Only in a power amp with truly regulated supply rail voltages would you see a directly inverse relationship between load impedance and maximum output power. Most non-switching regulation schemes waste significant amounts of power, though, so you rarely see them in power amps. You can think of a tightly regulated supply as having zero output impedance, while an unregulated supply has some output impedance that will cause a voltage drop proportional to the amount of current drawn from it. A supply with high impedances will suffer more voltage sag on its rails when delivering high current than will one with low impedances. Consequently, the amp will clip at a lower output voltage when driving a 4-ohm load than when driving 8 ohms, and lower still when driving a 2-ohm load. The amount of difference in those voltages is a fair indicator of the quality of the power supply.

    But again: below clipping, if you halve the load impedance, the power delivered by the amp will double.