ebay/paypal ripoff

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by godoze, Jan 6, 2003.

  1. godoze


    Oct 21, 2002
    I just sold a Telecaster on Ebay and i put in the terms that if someone uses paypal they would have to add 3% , this being the new paypal fee. Ebay sent me an email threatening me with removal if i do not stop this extra charge.

    I can understand that, but what bother me is that now you have to pay ebay to list the gear, then pay them a percent of the final price, and then, if you want to get paid quickly, you have to give paypal another 3% !

    Must be nice to have a monoply.

    NO more paypal on ANY of my auctions

    Ebay had to go and mess up a good thing:mad:
  2. Brooks


    Apr 4, 2000
    Middle East
    I hate PayPal with passion...they are soooo dumb when it comes to Int'l customers, it's beyond belief.
  3. Um, Paypal had a 3% fee before eBay bought them .. at least on Premeire accounts. Maybe they just added it to regular accounts, I dont' know. However, I always asked for the 3% in my auction, and nobody ever emailed me.

    Paypal is a SERVICE, not a right ... they deserve to make money. Hey, if you don't want to use it, wait for a check or MO in the mail. You're paying for the speed and convienence.

    I will agree its a lot of fees coupled with the eBay fees - and people wonder why eBay stuff sells for so high.
  4. Gabu


    Jan 2, 2001
    Woodland Hills, CA
    That's strange. I have seen a lot of people doing that (charging extra for paypal). This must be something new.
  5. godoze


    Oct 21, 2002
    maybe it is new, but they sent me an email titled "procedural violation." This letter implied that had the auction not already ended they would have ended it for me, and that if i want the priviledge of selling on ebay i better shape up and be a good boy.

    I will, i just will not use paypal anymore.
  6. At least you asked beforehand. I had one seller tell me to add 5% because I was using paypal to pay.

    I called BS, emailed him and ebay on it. That's not the way to do things.

    I'd just accept M.O.'s for selling items. Simple.
  7. I make my living by buying and selling on eBay and PayPal unfortunately is a necessary evil, especially with international transactions. PayPal has ALWAYS had a paragraph in their agreement (paragraph #5 if memory serves) that forbids sellers from adding additional fees for the use of their service. It's just that it hasn't really been enforced until now.<p>Since eBay now owns PayPal expect eBay to vigorously enforce this rule! They are complete and utter jerks and will nitpick you for every last penny. Look at all their nifty fees. They want to make money when you list an item, when they host your images, when you add bold type to your auction title (which is a complete ripoff since it costs them NOTHING) or other "special features", when you use Buy-It-Now which actually benefits them by speeding up their revenues and more quickly freeing up their server space, selling commissions, special programs like the Square Trade program or eBay stores, and now they make their percentage on electronic payments through PayPal. Plus they are adding auction management services for additional fees. If one were silly enough to use all their services I could see a seller easily losing 25% of every sale to their malarkey.<p>The biggest thing to watch out for with PayPal is the fact that if there is ANY possible dispute between you and a buyer, they ALWAYS side with the buyer! The sellers pay all of their fees, but they will charge back your account without batting an eye any time a buyer makes the slightest whine. Plus their 'seller protection policy' is completely and utterly bogus since they refuse to cover a transaction unless you use a 'verified shipping address'. Well, THEY are supplying you with the buyers address! If they haven't bothered to do their job and verify the buyers address, then why are they allowing the buyer to use their service in the first place? They demand the fees for the service but they don't want to ever pay out a dime. Sounds like they were created by people from the insurance industry!<p>The only protection if you choose to use their service is to bump up your shipping charges a bit, then offer your buyers a better 'shipping rate' if they pay you by another means when you email them after the sale. (NEVER use PayPal's buyer notification emails!) This will allow you to compensate for their exhorbitant fees without calling attention to yourself or technically breaking their rules. I don't mind PayPal making money for their service, but given their ever-increasing expenses and irrational policies I think it's good to have some options available.
  8. Gabu


    Jan 2, 2001
    Woodland Hills, CA
    Hmm... Good info. I like your ideas also. What I am going to do now is not charge more for paypal, but offer a discount for money orders. Make your starting bid just a bit higher, and if they pay by cashiers check or money order, take 2% off.

    That way you are not violating paypal rules.
  9. bassmonkeee

    bassmonkeee Supporting Member

    Sep 13, 2000
    Decatur, GA
    If you guys don't like it--Don't use it. They certainly aren't forcing you to use them. They have a right to make money--otherwise, what's their incentive to exist as a business? Visa and Mastercard charge you to use them. Banks charge a fee to cash checks. How is this any different?
  10. DigMe


    Aug 10, 2002
    Waco, TX
    I agree. They may be greedy and it may suck but they can if they want and we can choose to use it or not.

    I believe Ebay also had this rule before they purchased PayPal. No extra surcharges can be associated with a specific form of payment. I think one of the reasons is because many people use Paypal to pay by credit card and in some states it's illegal to charge extra for credit card transactions. It's a lot easier and less confusing to say "You can't have extra surcharges period" than to say "people in this and that state cannot charge the extra 3% but people in these states can."

    Brad Cook
  11. well thats the problem when something starts out free and then adds fees, especially online.

    btw, my bank doesnt charge me to cash checks :p

    maybe this will be the time when a viable competitor to eBay (and/or Paypal) will arise.
  12. Man guys, lots of resentment for ebay here. I have been using it quite reagularly since Dec. 2001. I don't have any problem with the fees. When I first started selling about eight months ago I thought they were crazy until I started thinking about it, they aren't that big if you factor in what you are selling it for. I mean I have sold two guitars on there in the last month totaling over 800 combined and I think with all fee's (ebay and ebay-paypal) I paid about 10-12 bucks. So what how do I make that up? I don't charge extra fees, I charge 30-35 in shipping then I go through Airborne Express. I shipped a bass for 15 dollars last week with insurance and the bass got there in three days. Now I charged 35 on that one, it costed me 15 to ship, approx. 4.50 to list and Paypal charged me like 3. I had enough to cover gas and a chinese buffet.

    If you are selling something and don't want to pay the fee's add it to the cost or shipping, it's easy. If the buyer complains about the shipping cost, tell them to bid on someone else's auction. Or if you really don't like it don't use it. (IMO-no offense meant)

    I think ebay is a great service, we all have to make money. But I do agree with the bold thing and the highlight thing, I mean c'mon-

  13. bassmonkeee

    bassmonkeee Supporting Member

    Sep 13, 2000
    Decatur, GA
    Paypal is still free as long as the money is coming from a bank account. If it comes from a CC, they get charged by VISA/MC, so they pass the charge along. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

    As far as not getting charged to cash checks, you aren't a business, are you? :p
  14. DigMe


    Aug 10, 2002
    Waco, TX
    Is that really ethical? I'm not saying it is or isn't but I've always kind of gone back and forth in my head about whether or not I have a problem with telling someone the shipping is say, 20 bucks, when you know that it's only 10. On my Ebay CD auctions I charge 2 bucks shipping. It usually costs about 1.30 to send the CD and a bubble mailer from wal-mart costs about 50 cents (although it could be had cheaper if I weren't so lazy). So I'm really making 20 cents. Am I any different from the above situation. Is that situation wrong or does it even matter if the shipping charge is stated in the auction (even though it's an inflated figure)? What do you think?

    brad cook

    ps - another ethical dilemma: Am I hijacking this thread? :eek:
  15. Secksay

    Secksay Guest

    Sep 6, 2002
    New York, NY

    ever heard the term 'shipping & handling'?
    what do you think the handling is for :p

    its not unethical in the least bit, you have to pay for someone's time to sit there and pack it, take it to the post office, etc.
  16. I think the upped shipping charges are completely ethical. Think about it, I had to find or make a box, drive to the center, wait in line and drive home. On my CD aucitons I charge $2.50, it costs 1.45 plus .50 for the envelope. I consider that cheap. I just paid 3.75 on one. I'm not complaining though because my new record for purchase price on a CD is .01 on a NEW CD.

    I think the inflated price on items is to make up on the low start or sell price. For those of us over 18 check out the shipping costs on the adult video's. 6-8-10-12 buck's!! WOW it's costs me 1.75 to ship a video.

    Like I said if buyers don't like the shipping charges or extra fee's don't bid. You can always email the seller and ask why it is so much, I had one tell me if I won he would knock off $2, and I had another say "if you don't like it buy from someone else." So I did. I always think when I am selling, "just because I owned it and took care of it it's not gold!" But I do expect to get a return on it.

  17. tjoTim


    Apr 30, 2002
    Ohio, U.S.A
    eBay's no-surcharge policy has been around a while. I found out about it the same way in 2001 when I first started selling on eBay. I think a lot of people learn about it when eBay cancels one of their listings. The rule doesn't have anything to do with eBay buying PayPal. Someone once suggested to me that it is illegal in some states to apply a surcharge to credit card transaction. I don't have any first-hand knowledge of that, but something like that might be the reason for the rule.

    When I got fed up with eBay's pathetic inhouse online payment service (a.k.a BidPay, eBay Payments etc.), I decided to stop accepting it and sent eBay an email saying so.
  18. Paypal has always charged fees. As for sellers charging extra to cover the Paypal fees, I've never done it and I avoid auctions where the sellers do that.

    Simply put, if you use a credit card on a merchant site, the merchant is going to be charged by Visa, Discover, etc. Second, if you accept a check (or pay by it), you (or the seller) have to take your (their) time to go the bank and deposit it. My time is worth more than the time it would take me to go to the bank. I'm always really busy (though I have a moment to post here).

    So instead of whining about Paypal's fees, consider the time you'd have to otherwise spend going to the bank. Paypal saves you that time.
  19. MoltarRocks - "Paypal has always charged fees."<p>Not true! It was free for everyone for quite a while until people got used to using it. Then they changed their fee schedule 4 times in as many months!<p>"Simply put, if you use a credit card on a merchant site, the merchant is going to be charged by Visa, Discover, etc."<p>Exactly the point! The issue here is that PayPal will not allow the sellers to recoup those fees. Essentially this policy has shifted costs from the buyers to the sellers and the sellers get stuck. Buyers used to have to get money orders or write checks then pay the postage to the seller. Now that cost comes out of the sellers wallet. And the buyer also gets the added benefit of quicker shipment of their merchandise since the seller receives the payment a little quicker. But to be competitive a seller has to charge a shipping & handling fee comparable to that charged by other sellers. I dig into my pocket every month to pay for shipping charges because of this. If PayPal allowed sellers to add that extra percentage to pay their fees this wouldn't be necessary! So 'whining about PayPal fees' isn't really the point, it's the fact that the people who actually pay those fees (I'm giving them $1,000 this year!) are prohibited from OPENLY recouping expenses that used to be the responsibility of the buyers.
  20. well in the regular economy, we buyers pay fees (mark up on products, taxes) and the sellers pay fees (employee salaries, overhead, rent) so like, nobody gets anything for nothing.

    and as stated above, you CAN recoup in handling charges .... or just start your auctions at a reasonable price.

    I still think most stuff on eBay is too high. I've seen photo equipment sell for above retail! PPL are stupid!