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EBS Fafner + BagEnd 410 = no sound ?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Bigfoot414, May 15, 2011.

  1. Hi everybody

    Today I had a gig at an open air festival with my neighbour's band, since their original bassist has some issues he had to deal with, I filled in the bass position.
    He said it was ok that I used his gear, being a Peavey T-Max amp and a Bagend 410 cab.
    But because I have a really nice EBS Fafner, I decided to bring the Swedish beast to the gig.

    While soundchecking, no sound coming out of this rig.

    First of all, I played a MiM Fender P today, it works fine. (I tried it on a Fender guitar amp, just to be sure my bass was ok)

    We tried everything we could think of; different cables, every speakon connection we could find, still nothing.

    The Fafner still recieved an input signal, but it just refused to produce the punchy warm bass rumble I love so dearly.

    Strange thing is that I used the Fafner last Friday in rehearsal on an Ampeg 410 HLF, and everything worked perfectly.

    I read somewhere(thanx to Google) that these BagEnd cabs don't always work too well with EBS gear.
    Don't know if it is true, but does anyone of you have an idea what the problem might be?

    I hope it's not the Fafner
  2. Lesfunk

    Lesfunk Supporting Member

    If using a speakon connector on your speaker cable, could it be that the cable end could be wired differently than the input connector on the cab?
  3. Weird, it worked fine on my Ampeg cab last Friday.

    I think, in retrospect, I just should have brought my own cab :)
  4. Did the bag End still work with the Peavey?
  5. Boot Soul

    Boot Soul

    Feb 10, 2009
    If you were using Speakon ended cables, then your problem involved the little known fact (to those who don't own Bag End cabs) that Bag Ends' Speakon sockets are wired to the +/-2 contacts and NOT to the +/-1 contacts, as is the case in every other Speakon socketed bass cab I have ever heard of.

    Although Speakon does make connects with only two contacts, the majority used are four contact type, each +/- pair designated as 1 and 2. In your situation you were probably using a cable wired to the 1's where there is no connection at the sockets in the Bag End's jack plate.

    The reason Bag End wires their bass cabs to +/-2 is because this is how it is done for PA systems with biamp/active crossovers. In these systems the speaker cables for the right and left channels each carry four connects, two for the mids-highs (+/-1), and two to carry the low bass (+/-2).

    {CORRECTION: actually it is the other way around....+/-1 is for lows, +/-2 is for mid-highs....see my correction in post #9, below}

    The +/-1's on the back of a Bag End bass cab are wired THROUGH (but not to the speakers in the cab) so that the mids-highs can pass through to the mid-horn drivers. The mid-horn drivers are ONLY wired to +/-1, so they receive none of the low bass. This arrangement is standard for many PA systems.

    To use a speaker cable with Speakon connects at both ends, it would need to be a cable that was "crossed over" so that +/-1 on one end connects to +/-2 on the other.......and the cable would need to be labeled so that you know which end is which.

    Bag Ends also have sockets for 1/4" and banana plugs that work like any others.
  6. I will certainly admit that I have never heard of this before. It makes sense in a PA environment BUT I would have though it to be the other way around. Lows to the first pair and highs to the second. I'll add this to the miscellaneous junk floating around between my ears. :)
  7. Ok, thanx for the comment.

    Is it possible that my Fafner is damaged because of this?
    I did unplug the Speakon when the amp was running and I plugged it into an other Speakon connection.
    I didn't really think about it until now, I hope I didn't do something stupid to my amp.
  8. Last Wednesday it worked fine, but I didn't try it today.
    I wanted my Fafner
  9. Boot Soul

    Boot Soul

    Feb 10, 2009
    No, you did no harm to your Fafner, as it is a solid-state power amp, hybrid type head, if I am not mistaken. If you had done this using a tube-powered head, then damage could have been done.

    With tube-powered heads, it is a good practice to not even plug in the power cord until the amp is fully connected to the speaker cab or cabs.

    Bag End does it this way because they are mainly a PA oriented company that produces lines of musical instrument rig cabs as an extension of that. They didn't start off making bass cabs at all. But if you didn't already know, they are excellent sounding, very durable bass cabs. I think the only reason they are not considered a peer to other top-end lines like Bergantino, AccuGroove, Epifani, Genz-Benz, etc., is because they seem to invest very little $ into marketing and advertising compared with the others. I have owned a Q10BX-D for years, and it has sounded very good with every amp I have connected it to. The cab has the unusual quality of being BOTH very efficient (103 dB SPL, 1W@1m) and high-power handling (conservatively rated at 800 Watts......I have connected a Crest CA9 putting out about 1600 Watts into 8 Ohms without any problem......the opposite of a problem really.....great tight low-end!).


    And actually, I mis-spoke before (in post #5, above) about the division of lows and mid-highs in actively crossed over systems. It IS correct that +/-1 normally carries the lows, and +/-2 carries the mid-highs (NOT the other way around as I stated above). Still, the Bag End bass cabs are wired to +/-2, so the problem you had is as I had described it.

    BassmanPaul, you are correct in what you were saying in post #6!

    If I had first seen THIS link, from the Bag End FAQ's, I would have just posted it and not tried to stumble through my own explanation:
    Frequently Asked Questions
  10. Thanks for the correction but there's no need to shout! :D
  11. CapnSev


    Aug 19, 2006
    Coeur d'Alene
    +1 to what's already been said. In general, ignore the speakon connections on Bag Ends.
  12. unlined4string

    unlined4string Supporting Member

    Mar 18, 2000
    Baltimore County, Md.
    As a former owner of both pieces of equipment (at the same time) I can confirm that post #5 is correct in saying <<To use a speaker cable with Speakon connects at both ends, it would need to be a cable that was "crossed over" so that +/-1 on one end connects to +/-2 on the other.......and the cable would need to be labeled so that you know which end is which.>>.
  13. agedhorse

    agedhorse SUSPENDED Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    Be very careful when making non-standard cables, or cables to connect non-standard gear. Label very clearly and understand why it's different. We get a few calls relating to this kind of thing and it's a bugger to sort out when a non-standard connection is involved.
  14. Thanks for all the replies guys, my main cocern was in fact the Fafner.
    I was kinda scared that I did something terrible to my EBS but I am more or less sure that my beloved Fafner survived today.
    Just to be sure, I'll connect it to my Ampeg cab tomorrow to be 100% sure nothing's wrong with it.

    I'll let you know as soon as I know more.
  15. I pulled the jack plate on both of my Bag End 4x10 cabs and soldered jumpers on the back of the board to the Speakon so that I didnt have some special wierd cable that could get mixed up.
    Funny when I went to buy the first BE cab the guy gave me $75 dollars off because we couldn't get the cab to work with the Speakon connection,when I got home I pulled the jack plate and fiqured out what the problem was.
  16. I tried the Fafner on my Ampeg cab just an hour ago, no problem at all

    So I guess the problem was what BootSoul said.

    Lesson learned: always bring ALL of my own gear next time :)
  17. agedhorse

    agedhorse SUSPENDED Supporting Member Commercial User

    Feb 12, 2006
    Davis, CA (USA)
    Development Engineer-Mesa, Product Support-Genz Benz
    For clarification to other folks who may be reading this, do not jumper 1+ with 2+ and 1- with 2-. If you happen to use the cabinet with an NL-4 cable, 4 conductor, and the amp has a biamp mode (some GK's and others, especially conventional power amps which sometimes have left on 1 and right on 2), even when operating in full range, you could seriously damage the power amp.

    If you want to make your cabinet compatable with the 1+/1- world (99.9%), rewire the input connector to 1+/1- and remove the 2+/2- connections.
  18. Thanks for that,I couldn't remember exactly what I did without it in front of me.

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