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Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Son of Bovril, Sep 5, 2005.

  1. Ok, so I got myself 2 of these EDEN 210XST cabs rated at 500 watts each at 4 ohms... I borrowed an EDEN WT-550 to use with the cabs this weekend and was SORELY DISAPPOINTED

    Firstly, with one cab running at 4 ohms, the eden head which is supposed to put out 500+ watts (seems about right 4 one of the 500 watt cabs right?) - running the preamp so that the light just flashes with the hardest playing, the power amp would clip as only half its volume!!! nothing I could do would stop this?

    Secondly, the 500 watts that the WT-550 head put out seemed hardly enough to even get the cab out of bed (my Fender Rumble 100 wal louder)!? how much power do these cabs need before they get excited? I've gotta power 2 of theses babies!
  2. Danm


    Sep 24, 2003
    Canberra Australia
    How high did you have the pre???
    What sort of Bass were u using??
    What sort of eq settings??

    Mine is as load as a mofo running by itself @ 8ohms with a WT550
  3. I play an active Warwick thumb NT 5-string. 9-volt preamp. running straight into the head, with gain pad activated - gain knob at 12

    enhance set to 0, eq set flat (all at 12) and master volume clips at about 12 o'clock?
  4. murphy


    May 5, 2004
    Toronto, Canada
    I would get the same results with my WT400 and two 210XLT's.
    Switched to a WT800 and definately was better, but would still clip alot..power amp limiter light.
    Removed one cab and added a 410 XLT....Fantastic!!!
    Got rid of the head and switched to preamps and PLX poweramp and now an older Markbass s450 head....Love them.
    I always felt Eden was overoptimistic in their power claims, but most feel the opposite???
  5. yeah, I find the sound to be a bit bottom heavy and thin in the low mids - and turning up the enhance knob just boosts the bass and treble while cutting the mids, which makes the amp clip sooner?

    what good is an amp that you can't turn louder than half way!

    Could it be that the cabs are just too power hungry for the wt550?
  6. popinfresh


    Dec 23, 2004
    Melbourne, Aus
    So, the pad was out.. From memory, that means it's quiter? Or louder? Go with whatever is louder IMO.

    I played a WT800 through 410XLT and it was LOUD.
  7. Danm


    Sep 24, 2003
    Canberra Australia
    From memory, I don't use the input pad with my Stingray either......

    Maybe try and see how high you can get the pre without the pad engaged.....

    Just a thought..
  8. Lowtonejoe

    Lowtonejoe Supporting Member

    Jul 3, 2004
    Richland, WA
    Don't forget that the signal strength coming from your bass has everything to do with where the preamp starts to clip and ultimately where the power amp clips.

    Are you using a passive or active bass?

    The style of music you play has a huge effect on where clipping starts also. If you play in a wide dynamic range (soft fingering to hard slapping) you will have to have everything set to your hardest playing which is compounded by active pickups/preamps or hot passive p'ups and of course eq settings.

    Your disappointment is valid. The gear did not perform as you expected it to but many many people (pro, semi-pro and amateurs alike) rave about Eden products.

    Maybe you need a good break-in period to accomidate the learning curve that we all have with getting new gear?

    Or maybe you got the wrong gear for the job?


  9. Yeah, I think maybe the WT-550 is not the best head for the job - luckily I just borrowed it and did not buy it! I play hard rock, whick is probably not the Eden's strong point either...

    I do play an active bass, with a very wide dynamic range, and the clipping only really happens when playing hard or slapping, buy because the amp seems so quiet, I find myself having to play alot harder just to be heard... I can hear myself better if I pump some mids (round 500)into the sound instead of running them flat, but I shouldn't have to compromise my sound/tone for volume especially if I'm playing with everything flat as is...

    putting the pad off of the input just makes the preamp clip earlier?

    I've lowered my pickups on my bass previously already and am running the electronics flat also, so my bass shouldn't be pushing the preamp too hard...?
  10. popinfresh


    Dec 23, 2004
    Melbourne, Aus
    SOB. Compromising tone (the bedroom tone anyway) happens a LOT in live playing (especially rock). Mids are simply needed to cut through the mix and if boosting mids helps aleviate the problem, it may be an option you need to do..
  11. 12bass


    Jan 2, 2003
    Victoria, Canada
    A few things come to mind:

    - the D210XST does not have a prominent low-mid bump

    - you would be better off with a Schroeder or Eden D210XLT which have a low-mid bump

    - you are expecting too much from a 2x10 cabinet

    For a loud rock player, I doubt any 2x10 used alone will really cut it. That's why you often see 4x10s or bigger cabinets on most stages. A 2x10 is good for low to medium volume gigs.

    By the way, every amp will clip at some point, so the position of the knobs at clipping doesn't really matter much. Headroom is built into the amp so that the EQ can be dialed back, and full volume will still be achieved. "Half way" is of little significance. Also, cutting low bass will help you get more clean volume.
  12. yeah, I often do push my mids in a band setting to be able to hear myself, but it doesn't sound right with the music either... anyways, thats just a tone issue...

    I actually have 2 210XST cabs, which I hook up together, but the WT-550 was struggling to push just one - with the second cab hooked up, it is definately louder, but the amp struggles even more - I think I'm gonna just try out a bigger amp - say 1000 watts and see if I have the same problem? I'm thinking that maybe we just play too loud and the WT550 just isn't strong enough to push the cabs to the volume I need

    Or alternatively I could break one of my drummer's arms which would let me cut through the mix a little better!
  13. Does anyone else use Eden gear for hard Rock?

    Can Anyone tell me if the EBS TD650 is much louder than the WT550 at 2 ohms, because they are rated similarly...?
  14. I own a 210XST, love the sound, especially the extended lows. No complaints about volume, even though my amp (WT330) is underpowered for it. If I played hard rock I would probably have bought a 410XLT (with the low-mid bump and more aggressive mids). Although I guess the XLT can be a bit too edgy for a Thumb (I play an NT4).

    I've played 210's for a long time - main thing I've learnt is to get the box off the floor and up where you can hear it. No point blasting your knees with sound. I figure I can get by with a compact, easy-to-move system as long as I stand close to it and aim it at my head.
    And don't under-estimate the throw of those cabs. Last week I did a small outdoors show - initially I regretted not bringing a bigger rig, but the sound guy walked down the hill from his mix point to tell me the bass sounded so good on its own he wasn't going to put it in the PA mix.
  15. So maybe I should stand farther away from my rig then?
  16. Ostinato

    Ostinato Guest

    Feb 7, 2005
    Toronto ON
    Something must be wrong with Eden these days as I also demoed a WT-400, used several large and small cab combinations; and I couldn't believe how weak it was. It definitely wasn't 400 watts. :eyebrow:

    I will always stand by their cabs though.
  17. yeah, the cabs are great - I can hear that they can handle plenty of low end power and have awsome depth! I was just expecting more from the head... I'm hoping the EBS will be louder
  18. well, just another plug for the cab... i run a eden 210xst and an eden 212xlt with my ashdown 500 evoII and it has loads of power. i demoed every cab eden had and ended up with this cab choice. the ashdown head over the eden heads just gave me that sound i was looking for. power has not been an issue, and we play loud.
  19. Maybe I should check out those ashdown heads... I've stayed away from them for no apparent reason actually...

    Also, can someone tell me how flat the Eden XST cabs are? I've heard they are meant to be pretty flat, but I'm sure they have some coloration to them... can anyone comment as to where that colour lies?
  20. jokerjkny


    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PHL

    also, how long have you had the cab for? speakers could use a breakin in.

    fresh from the factory, IMHO, they wont reach their full volume or low end potential. try taking a power amp, a simple Mackie or (GASP!) Behringer mixer, plug in a CD player, iPod, etc., and run it 24 hrs. a day for a week. the volume doesnt have to be too loud at all, just something has to be jogging the speakers. the longer the better. i do this with ALL my cabs, and it makes a world of a difference.

    btw, i dont think you made it clear... did the "preamp" clip light flash, or was it the "power section" clip light? HUGE difference. if you're clipping the front end "preamp" then you need to lower the gain in your active bass. if its the "power amp" section light, then you're not providing enough power to your speakers, and do in fact have to upgrade your power.

    and while you say turning up those mids arent fitting for your music, mids are the key to hearing yourself properly in any situation. the semi, yet powerful parametric EQ section of the Eden preamp section is capable of finding/adding those musical mids. i say, try bumping up a nice swath of low mids for that punch.

    in your senario, it'd be best to turn down the active preamp's bass/treble boosts, and learn to work from the Eden's (or any amp for that matter) preamp/EQ section to unlock the true power of your rig. IMHO, your onboard pre should only be used to taste, and the bulk of your tone shaping should come from the amp's EQ section itself.

    also, the EBS doesnt have much more wattage than the WT550. IMHO, they're in the same wattage class. you'll have a better bet by going w/ an 800 watt powered amp. IMHO, pickup anyone of the used DB750 i've been oddily seeing everywhere, and REALLY hear yourself amplified.

    and, one of the BEST amp lines for rock are Eden.