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Eden 410XLT & 18XL...what for amplification?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by DubHunter, Feb 27, 2008.


  1. DubHunter

    DubHunter

    Feb 15, 2008
    Columbia Gorge
    Finally have the speaker setup worthy of pride and it's time to put the amplification into 'em. I feel like an 18 and 4 10's will execute what I'm looking for. But with what on top?

    I'm still a bit unclear on how wattage works and if someone wouldn't mind clearing that up, props to them. If the XLT is rated at 700 watts, and the 18 500 watts. we've got 1200. Does this mean that going too much lower on the power rating is going to result in a lack of power?
    When I'm looking at power ratings, do I look at the 8ohm rating, meaning that is what each cabinet would be getting?
    Another thing I am confused on is when specs statesomething like 500 x 2, how does this translate to two cabinets? (ex. eden 1205)

    I realize I'm asking some basic questions, but I'm just looking to get the setup right this time around. My band is playing shows regularly now, and there is no excuse for the basslines not to be fully delivered.

    These are what I suppose I'm considerring, but nothing is narrowed down or definite:

    Eden WT1205 or 800 (if it will suffice)
    Genz Benz 1200
    Aguilar DB750
    GK 2001RB

    also open to a power/pre option. Maybe I could get an input on the rating of power amps and decision of preamp.
    thinking possibly

    BBE
    Alembic
    Demeter
    Trace Elliot (that silver face is so darn nice)

    really open to all paths, but looking to decide somewhat soon.

    I play reggae, so the warmth and low end weight is most important. but obviously having the ability to get clearer mids is nice.

    I appreciate all input, and want to just throw out the notion that this site is a great network of people, and I've already learned/enjoyed very much of what I've read.
     
  2. Eminor3rd

    Eminor3rd BLAAAAARRGGHH!!

    Feb 10, 2008
    NYC
    Actually, two 8 ohm cabinets together equals 4 ohms. Increasing the outlets for the power equates to lower resistance. when it says 500 x 2@4ohms, it means that there are two amps in the head, and that if you put each side into one cab, you'll get 500 into each cab. You're not in danger unless you severely underpower your cabinets. You'd be fine putting half of the power into each, in fact.

    A WT800 or WT1205 will suffice.
     
  3. The D410-XLT doesn't have much bottom, so a well designed 18" will fill this void. I built this combination for Aroarah bassist Chelsea Baker. Hers is an Eminence Magnum 18LF sized to match her D410-XLT. She rarely plays without full PA support, so the 18 is mostly a stand for using the D410-XLT as an ear-level stage monitor.

    The 18+410 is an easy combination to transport and has a small footprint on stage. A rack on top might put it up too high... something to consider. It is my understanding that traditional dub is a J-bass with a bottom at 41 Hz. Bill F. tells me his reggae measurements show a lot of power in the 60 Hz range, which is within the power band for this 18" driver.

    For this combination, the primary concern is the crossover. It should be an active type that allows gain adjustment for each channel. The D410-XLT is far more sensitive (louder) than the 18". Adjustable gain will let you balance the two cabs.

    An inexpensive active crossover (Rane MX22) will get down to 100 Hz as the crossover point. 100 Hz is also the bottom of the D410-XLT high sensitivity range, making this cab optimal as the High box. Use your crossover High channel to decrease the level to match the Low channel. You will need a two channel power amp to use the MX22.

    My personal preference is for separate preamp and power amps. You can choose your desired coloration (Eden, Ampeg, SWR, etc) from a variety of preamps. I use QSC power amps, PLX series. Even though separates require a rack, I find this more useful than a head. YMMV. Don't be afraid to get a power amp with muscle. Just because you have a lot of wattage available does not mean you will use it all.
     
  4. pickles

    pickles Gold Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2000
    Ventura, CA
    I'd go with the navigator and the monster eden power amp (WT1550?). You'll want a burly amp since you're likely to want to run stereo, not bridged, so you can balance the outputs and maybe even bi-amp. The Navigator also has an amazing compressor and DI setup that blows away their integrated heads.

    But eden cabs always sound best with eden power IMO. The only other preamps I'd consider are the alembic F1-X and trace V-type (though the latter is missing a crossover) ... but definitely stick with Eden for the power amp.
     
  5. DubHunter

    DubHunter

    Feb 15, 2008
    Columbia Gorge
    can I get a little bit of wisdom on bi-amping, running bridged or sterro options?
    what is better for what?
    what will help the 18 get the sound moving?
     
  6. pickles

    pickles Gold Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2000
    Ventura, CA
    The mids and highs on the 18 are something you'll either dig or you won't. They're very distinctive and different from smaller drivers. You'll get the most output by running both cabs full range, but you'll get a "clearer" sound if you use a crossover and bi-amp. Basically, just try it out and see what you dig. I usually don't like the way bi-amped rigs sound since I feel like there is always wierdness at the crossover point, which is usually somewhere around 100hz ... the absolute most important frequency range for bass!
     
  7. rockstarbassist

    rockstarbassist Banned

    Apr 30, 2002
    The Woodlands, TX
    Endorsing Artist: HCAF
    Navigator + power amp of your choice on this one.

    Pretty much can't miss. I bi-amped a Nav + QSC PLX 3402 -> Schro 1210+Accugroove 118, and it sounded downright awesome.

    Or the 800B is gonna have enough juice, especially bridged!
     
  8. Bryan316

    Bryan316 Banned

    Dec 20, 2006
    Detroit
    The WT800C bridged into your cabs full-ranged, is gonna make you smile for days. Don't need to bother bi-amping and using the crossover, it'll sound awesome without it. Eden's cabs work best when you just let them reproduce the frequencies they're designed to create.

    Between the WT1205 and the 800, that's personal choice for the second preamp and all the extra bells and whistles. If you need and like those options, go for it. But the 800 is a dead-simple amp to get a good tone from. I'd be more than satisfied with that amp just running flat!
     
  9. If you can, try preamp Alembic F-1X, warmest ('tubey') bass i've ever heard and they throw in an excellent X-over. Which poweramp you use after that really doesn't matter....
     
  10. MODNY

    MODNY Guest

    Nov 9, 2004
    crest ca9
    800 watts to each side

    lots of control that way
     
  11. DubHunter

    DubHunter

    Feb 15, 2008
    Columbia Gorge

    What is it about Eden power amps? Isn't power simply power?
     
  12. Bryan316

    Bryan316 Banned

    Dec 20, 2006
    Detroit
    NEVER.


    The short story: Some amplifiers are good at reproducing some frequencies. Proper bass amps are better at reproducing lower frequencies while keeping tonal fidelity. That's why you don't see bassists using guitar amps.


    And until you run an Eden amp through an Eden cab, you just won't believe how much I praise them. It's just something you have to hear for yourself.
     
  13. pickles

    pickles Gold Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2000
    Ventura, CA
    No, the WT power amps have a "voice". They are not "flat", but rather are tuned to get the most from the Eden cabs (they're great with SWR cabs as well).

    All pro quality PA-style amps (Crown, Crest, Carvin, Stewart, etc) sound the same when deployed correctly, but the Eden power amp is something else entirely.

    Which one works better depends on the cabs. With your cabs, its Eden hands down IMO.

    They Eden also packs a lot of punch with relatively light weight.
     
  14. DubHunter

    DubHunter

    Feb 15, 2008
    Columbia Gorge
    thank you gentlemen, I take these words with sincerity and validity. props
     
  15. bassman639

    bassman639

    Dec 23, 2006
    northeast ,pa
    all eden heads sound better flat than most others tweek, the only thing you might find yourself doing a click here and there, as for power amps i would get a wt1250 ,or a crown but i do agree for a 410/115or118 a wt800C would all you need
     
  16. DubHunter

    DubHunter

    Feb 15, 2008
    Columbia Gorge
    I do believe that after a couple days of GAS and using these recomendations, I've decided that the 800 will be what I'll purchase.
    Need to keep in mind that the setup is getting tall, and if the rack can be a 4space instead of 6, adding a tuner and power strip, (and dreams of a dbx 120xp subharmonic) will be a bit more righteous come gig time.
    I'll get some images up when it comes full circle.
    I hear the sounds of low end glee on the horizon.
     
  17. Rob Mancini

    Rob Mancini Guest

    Feb 26, 2008
    Tall is good. Can't reach the controls? Bring along a stepstool. You're bringing a giant monster like an 18" and 4x10"s, what's an extra stepstool? ;)
     
  18. DubHunter

    DubHunter

    Feb 15, 2008
    Columbia Gorge
    Questions:confused::
    I'm lookng at a few wt 800 on evilbay right now, want to make sure it'll be the right ohm settings.

    Some cat asked a question :"Q: Can this bridge down to 4 ohms?
    A: Nope, sorry. This one is spec'd for bridged mode into 8 ohms."

    Since I'm running two 8 ohm cabs I'm at 4 ohms (right? I'm still not fluent on bass amplification knowledge)

    Bridged into 8ohms would mean ...what?

    This makes me think/inquire: Is there a website I can be directed to to get a basic and informative lesson on wattage,ohms ratings , power handling..maybe even more info on bi-amping, crossovers and compression?
    I don't want to ask too many stupid questions, ya know:meh:

    thanks again to all. legit community of people..and bass.
     
  19. pickles

    pickles Gold Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2000
    Ventura, CA
    Yes, 2 8 ohm cabs in parallel is 4 ohms. You need a WT800B if you want to do that. The WT1000 could always do it BTW.
     
  20. pickles

    pickles Gold Supporting Member

    Mar 23, 2000
    Ventura, CA

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