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Eden 410xlt-4 ohm sounds DIFFERENT than Eden 410xlt-8 ohm?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Ncognito, Feb 23, 2003.


  1. Ncognito

    Ncognito Banned Commercial User

    Jan 8, 2002
    Hoffman Estates, Illinois
    Owner, Xsonics Bass Cabinets
    Hey Everyone

    I own 4 Eden cabs (actually 6). I have a house gig on Wednesdays so I've been leaving my 4 ohm 410xlt there (too lazy to move it, and why). I used one of my 8 ohm 410xlt's for my Saturday gig with the same amp (Ampeg SVT-4 Pro) and noticed a pretty BIG difference it sound and tone, and I don't mean volume. I know the 4 ohm will be more efficient, so I'm not talking SPL's here. I've used the Ampeg/Eden rig (99% of the time with a 4 ohm cabinet) for about 6 years now with 150 gigs per year, so I know what the rig USUALLY sounds like. This is truly the first time in years I used the 8 ohm cabinet and the sound difference blew me away!

    Can someone explain this to me. The Eden folks told me years ago there would be NO tonal difference in a 4 ohm or 8 ohm box, just volume. That was wrong for sure.

    Can some hi-tech guy help me out here!

    Thanks in advance.

    Nick
     
  2. Mickey Shane

    Mickey Shane what goes here?

    Feb 23, 2003
    Denton, Texas
    Get energetic and switch the cabs. I think that the size and the acoustics of the rooms are playing a big part in the tonal differences that you are hearing.

    You did say that one was played for 6 years and the other one just sat around. One might have more of a "broken-in" sound to it.

    The wiring configuration that is used to make a cab 4 or 8 ohms really won't change the tone of the speakers.
     
  3. Ncognito

    Ncognito Banned Commercial User

    Jan 8, 2002
    Hoffman Estates, Illinois
    Owner, Xsonics Bass Cabinets
    Mickey

    Thanks for you reply!!

    Sorry to say that wiring or SOMETHING MUST play some part.

    Maybe the horn is getting more juice or something, but the sound is DRAMATICALLY different.

    I'm not some garage player imagining things. I use this set-up almost every other day of the year. The wiring, or the load going to the horn must have an overall effect, becuase the tonal difference a deaf man could hear (that maybe going a bit too far). I went with 4 ohm cabinets to get the maximum headroom (and volume) possible. (I have 2 - 210xlt's @ 4 ohm, 2 - 410xlt's@ 4ohm, and 2 - 410 xlt's @ 8 ohm). As I said earlier, I gig alot. I'm lazy, so I want to get the maximum sound for minumum effort, that's why I chose 4 ohm boxes ( I use them as stand alone cabinets )(1 cabinet per gig), depending on the size of the audience, 100-2000 people) 210xlt for groups of 100 or less, 410xlt for 125 to 1000. The 8 ohm sounded and reacted EXTREMELY different than my 4 ohm boxes, or else I wouldn't have started this thread.

    Sorry, but there must be a true REASON why, and sorry folks, it's not my ears!

    Can anyone shed some light on this?

    Nick
     
  4. hujo

    hujo

    Apr 18, 2001
    Stockholm, Sweden
    I really don't know anything about this, but maybe it's your head that reacts differently when there is less/more resistance in it's way?
     
  5. Ncognito

    Ncognito Banned Commercial User

    Jan 8, 2002
    Hoffman Estates, Illinois
    Owner, Xsonics Bass Cabinets
    Sorry folks, it's not my head. For some physical reason, an 8 ohm box with a horn reacts, and sounds very different than the exact same box that is loaded to accept a 4 ohm load.

    Sorry to all you garage guru's, but I've done this for about 22 years (1 paying gig every 2-3 days since 1981 thru 2003!), and my ears know what they hear. Please don't give me some "it's your imagination crap", I've done this too long for that.

    Thanks everyone!

    Nick
     
  6. IvanMike

    IvanMike Player Characters fear me... Staff Member Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2002
    Middletown CT, USA
    im guessing that the 8 ohm is probably tighter due to underuse
    the amp could be reacting diffferently to the different load, especially if it is a tube power amp
    for giggles you might want to run 2 8 ohm cabs to gethere and see if that sounds different still
    i have always noticed a big difference in the same cabinet if it was being run with low wattage vs being run at or above peak wattage
     
  7. Cantstandsya

    Cantstandsya

    Jul 27, 2001
    Fontana, CA
    Then you should be able to figure it out.You obviously know your gear better than any one here.If you're going to trash everyones advice,don't ask for it.Personally,I agree with the guy who siad the 8 ohm hasn't been broken in.I was warned about the breaking period when having speakers reconed by SWR.They told me it wouldn't sound like my old speakers for at least 40-80 hours of playing time.Ok,i'm ready for my bashing now:eek:
     
  8. Ncognito

    Ncognito Banned Commercial User

    Jan 8, 2002
    Hoffman Estates, Illinois
    Owner, Xsonics Bass Cabinets
    Sorry all

    I'm in no way trying to bash anyone!!!!

    All of my cabs are about the same vintage, so breaking in is not what's cooking here! I rehearse about 52 times a year with the 8 ohm cabinet!

    I'm convinced that the wiring of a 4 x 10 cabinet for 8 ohms sounds quite different than the same cabinet wired for 4 ohms, and SPL is not why they sound different. Some guru MUST know why. They are different, and NO one can tell me different. My gigging numbers are not bragging, I'm simply stating that my rig and me are together 600 hours every year (not to mention rehearsal time of 100 hours.) of paid time together!

    I appreciate all input, just don't tell me "it's in my head". I do way too many real gigs to be imagining the tonal difference.

    I'm sorry if I came of as a wanker!

    Nick
     
  9. Phat Ham

    Phat Ham

    Feb 13, 2000
    DC
    By "head" they mean "amp head". As in your ampeg SVT-4 Pro. They're not talking about your imagination. For someone with so much experience I'm surprised you couldn't figure that one out.:rolleyes:

    The sound of speakers changes as you play them. Some pros have their speakers reconed every year to preserve the sound that they like. Some people like the sound of old broken in speakers. Either way, the fact that you play through your 4 ohms 410 XLT's every other day while the 8 ohm ones hardly ever get played might have something to do with the difference in tone. It's also possible that one of them has a blown speaker or something like that, though you'd probably be able to figure that one out.
     
  10. Nick man

    Nick man

    Apr 7, 2002
    Tampa Bay
    Easy, your amp has to be pushed twice as hard to get the same volume out of the 8 ohm cab.

    That will make a huge difference in the sound.

    How many watts are you pushing into this cab anyways?

    Peace
    Nick
     
  11. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Imagine for a sec that instead of owning 6 cabs, you only owned one. And you lugged that cab around with you to every gig and rehearsal. That single cab would sound different in every single room you play in. And I don't just mean a little bit different.
     
  12. I ordered a crossover from Eden for a cabinet I was rebuilding and said I wanted a 4 ohm.They said they use the same crossover for all their cabinets,4 ohm and 8 ohm.The horns are 8 ohm so maybe the crossover point is different with a 4 ohm or 8 ohm load on one side.For sure the horn volume compared to the woofers will be different but they have a horn attenuator. This shouldn't be a big difference but maybe you can hear it.Maybe your amp sounds a little different when you have to turn it up for the 8 ohm cab.This is all I can think of.
     
  13. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    BB2 - If Eden crossovers are like SWR crossovers, they run the woofers full range so they can use the same network for 4 or 8 ohm cabinets.

    Nick, you need a bass with a wooden neck...that will fix it....

    I'm kidding.

    Where's your Wednesday night gig?

    I vote for speaker placement, tweeter level, speaker cable.

    But I'm a garage guru....(was that meant as a compliment?)
     
  14. BillyB_from_LZ

    BillyB_from_LZ Supporting Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Chicago
    Do your two 8 ohm cabs sound different from one another?

    How about your two 4 ohm cabinets?
     
  15. Ncognito

    Ncognito Banned Commercial User

    Jan 8, 2002
    Hoffman Estates, Illinois
    Owner, Xsonics Bass Cabinets
    Hi Billy !

    My (2) 4-ohm Eden 410xlt's sound exactly the same to each other, and the (2) 8-ohm Eden 410 xlt's also sound virtually identical.

    I will say that the (2) Eden 210xlt's that are 4 ohm boxes i also have do sound slightly different, but I think 1 of those cabinets could probably appreciate a reconing?

    How are the Avatars treating you?

    Nick

    www.theincognitos.com
     
  16. Lucent

    Lucent

    Feb 9, 2003
    Austria
    an amp behaves differently if the 'load' is 4 or 8 ohms.
    Every amp has a better damping factor (on low frequencies) with higher impedances, that is MORE Ohms. Resulting low-freq. sound is drier, cleaner, somehow 'stronger'.

    (The opposite is a muddy bass, e.g. with 2 Ohm loads.)

    But of course, as another poster said, you needed to drive your amp harder for the same volume. That as well might lead to the sound-difference you heard.

    Lucent
     
  17. Pete, I'm completely with you on this one.... the difference from room-to-room, stage-to-stage is astounding.

    Ncognito - ever compare the 4 vs. 8 in the same room, side by each?

    Agreed.
     
  18. Ncognito

    Ncognito Banned Commercial User

    Jan 8, 2002
    Hoffman Estates, Illinois
    Owner, Xsonics Bass Cabinets
    Hi everyone!

    I used the 4 ohm Eden 410xlt on friday, and used the Eden 8 ohm 410xlt on saturday. Same room, same bass, same amp! Big difference in sound!!!!

    Something is funky here!

    Come you tech guys, explain this!

    Nick

    www.theincognitos.com
     
  19. Hmmm . . .

    I have both 4ohm and 8ohm Eden D410XLTs and D210XLTs. They are different vintages and have varying numbers of hours on each. And they all sound very much the same.

    Room and even room placement contribute significantly to the sound of bass cabs. And as noted so does an amp driving different impendences although most likely this is probably much harder to hear.

    I'd say the room is contributing significantly. Bring the one at the club home and try them side by side and check it out.

    I know from my experience I can dial in a choice tone in one location and it will sound totally different (more/less bass, muddy, etc) in another venue.
     
  20. Ncognito

    Ncognito Banned Commercial User

    Jan 8, 2002
    Hoffman Estates, Illinois
    Owner, Xsonics Bass Cabinets
    Thanks EASonBass

    Sorry to say it was the EXACT same placement of the cabinet, in the exact same club, with the exact same bass, and the exact same amp!

    There IS a pretty big tonal difference between a 4 ohm, and 8 ohm cabinet, even with the cabinets being identical. The wiring and load, along with different ohm speakers being used make a BIG difference in how the two cabinets sound.

    My ears don't lie. Even the attack was VERY different!

    Wacky!

    Nick