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Eden CX 110 vs. billfitzmaurice.com

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by pondus, Mar 29, 2006.


  1. pondus

    pondus

    Mar 28, 2006
    Hi,

    I need a small portable cabinet to go with my new Markbass LM II, and after doing research I'm very confused.... so hopefully someone here can help me.

    I want to replace or add to my pretty awful sounding Ashdown MAG210 which basically only sounds decent when the volume is loud. At lower volumes it just seems that I have push the strings so much harder to make the speakers produce a decent tone. Is this what is referred to as a lack of efficiency?

    I'm considering buying an Eden CX-110 for small venues/gigs, but... I'm also very curious about building half size Omni 10 with Eminience Neodynimum speakers, as what you see on BIlls site at :

    http://www.billfitzmaurice.com/plans/product_info.php/products_id/27

    Bill has been pretty helpful and aswered lots of questions for me. He claims that 'build a box and it will sound like a box' referring to a small Eden type cabinet. But this is somewhat counterintuitive to a sound newbie like myself. Here's why:

    Take a guy who's been playing standup bass profesionally for 30 years; maybe he has a 200 year old bass that he paid $200,000 for so he could get exceptional tone. He's recorded on dozens of records with $20,000 microphnones. Surely he knows what constitutes good sound. Chances are he uses some kind of BOX extension type cabinet. If it really sounds so boxy and inferior to a horned design, would he use it? After 30 years would he not have sought out the non box solution? Or maybe the box shape is a good design after all, and if it's well tuned it sounds just as good as any of the designs at billfitzmaurice.com (will all due respect to BIll, he has been very helpful).

    Any thoughts from you small light extension cab junkies out there?

    Peder J.
    Ottawa, Canada
     
  2. Chef

    Chef Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    May 23, 2004
    Columbia MO
    Staff Reviewer; Bass Gear Magazine
    Chances are your DB player is using no amp at all when he records. For DB, I never have, and wouldn't.

    Cab tuning is a really fine art, and I believe Bill knows what he's talking about.
     
  3. One reason why Bill's stuff isn't mainstream is that it's costly to mass produce, compared to front loaded box cabs, especially the DRs and TUBAs. I know it may be a shock to some , most cab builders are out to make a profit. Just like any company, if there's a cheaper way to do it that people will buy, they'll do it cheaper and rasie their yearly net.

    I'm planning on building an onmi 10 in the next few months. I will post all about it when the time comes.
     
  4. pondus

    pondus

    Mar 28, 2006
    Clearly the DB player is using no amp when he records! ( I guess my post was confusing?) THe point is that people who are really obsessive about sound still use boxed cabs when playing live. So they must be decent. Why then stray from what appears to be the most popular design. Are all the botique cabinet makers selling box designs because building a cab like Bill's designs is simply too costly to do in mass production? Or do they believe that is the way to achieve the best sound? Something is not adding up here.

    Peder :)
     
  5. pondus

    pondus

    Mar 28, 2006
    Stedtale, I believe you just answered my question.

    Maybe I should cancel my order for an Eden Cx-110 and build a half Omni 10. I only hope I can find enough support when I get into trouble, I love woodworking but I suck at it.

    So the feeling is then that a Half Neo-10 would blow the Eden CX-110 out of the water. If we can get consesus in this thread, I'm sold! ;)
     

  6. I'll let you know when I build mine. I'll compare it to my carvin 2x10. I'll swap out the speakers so they are the same, and use the same head and bass, same EQ etc. See what the real difference is.
     
  7. From my understanding, the omnis are quite easy to build one at a time, and cheap. So, if you don't like it, you can try selling it for cost and find a buyer on Bill's site.
     
  8. Crockettnj

    Crockettnj

    Sep 2, 2005
    North NJ

    not too long ago i asked around about the omni 10 oor 10.5 (1/2 version). not much talk on here about them. HOWEVER, once i asked, ther were quite a few guys who were "in the process" or "about to begin".

    the BFM forum is a great help source, and i am sure this one will be too.

    also, it doesnt look too bad to do.

    i have 2 omni 10.5's on the drawing board. I hope to have them done right around final exams. I will post things as i go, and i trust others will too.

    my guess is there will be an omni 10 megathread soon.

    no, i am not kidding.

    ps- i am pretty sure i am going to use the bp102 in one, and the s2010 in the other jsut for comparative purposes.
     
  9. Hey Crockettnj-

    Let me know how it goes.
     
  10. pondus

    pondus

    Mar 28, 2006
    OK, I'm almost sold. Has anyone here tried building a half Omni 10 with just one 10" speaker? If so, how did it sound compared to other bass cabs like a 210, and how much did it weigh?

    Peder :)
     
  11. pondus

    pondus

    Mar 28, 2006
    OK, I just bougth Bill's plan for the Omni 2x10; I'll attempt to build the 1x10 version, and hopefully get it below 27 lbs... I'll let you kno w what happens.

    This brings up another cabinet issue that has nothing to do with tone or loudness. I have a cheap old Traynor Bloc 80B 80 Watt 15 ich combo amp , no tweeter. It doesn't sound great, but what I love about it is that it takes very little effort to get that low midrangy punchy sound often associated with Jaco, even at very low volumes. But with my more expensive Ashdown MAG 210 with a tweeter, i seem to have to either pull the stings much harder to get this driving sound, or turn it up before it becomes 'responesive' . Is this because a lower powered (80 Watts) speaker has tendency to be more responsive at low volumes? Or is it because it's a 15 inch are not as 'tight'?
    I also tried a Markbass 112, and I was amazed at how responsive it was to producing various sounds with subtle changes in the use of fingertips on the strings. This is not so with my MAG210 at all, unless the volume is high.

    When selecting a speaker, what should I then look for to ensure that I get this characteristic that, for lack of a better word, i call sensitivity, even at low volumes.
     
  12. kasbrey

    kasbrey

    Aug 23, 2002
    Northampton UK
    I had 2 Eden cx110's and thought that they broke up too easily. My Markbass Traveler 102p blows the Eden rig away.
    I think all of the MB cabs I've tried (new models) are superb.
     
  13. Use an authorized builder. There are a number around the country, and probably one fairly close to you.

    I don't know what a CX-110 is priced at, but you might find a 1x Omni10 comparable in price.
     
  14. pondus

    pondus

    Mar 28, 2006
    I just read the instructions, and it does not seem _that_ hard. What seems to be required is time and patience, and to not be in a hurry. Gavinb, are you saying that the process is fraught with risks so that it's possible to come out at the other end with a piece of junk? Also, I doubt I can find a builder here in Ottawa Canada, or a used half 110. But there is a wood working shop that will probably cut all the pieces on a pro table saw for about $50. The glueing seems fairly easy.

    What is your honest recommendation?
     
  15. Crockettnj

    Crockettnj

    Sep 2, 2005
    North NJ
    I know you directed it to Bruce, but...

    IME with other projects (additions, decks, cabinets, etc) the interpretation of the plans (or actual planning) and the quality of the CUTS are the tough part.

    GOOD CUTS are underrated.

    IMO if you have a shop doing the cutting, and Bill did the planning, well...
     
  16. Michael Vee

    Michael Vee Supporting Member

    Feb 3, 2004
    Knoxville, TN
    I own the Eden CX-110 cabinet- it was about $260, drop shipped from Eden, from Bass Northwest.

    There's nothing at all wrong with the CX-110. It's not an especially loud cabinet- the efficiency is about 98 db/1w/1m- and it can't handle a ton of power.

    What it excels at is monitoring- it's an exceptionally flat monitor cabinet for studio or smaller live gigs at low volumes. It has a lot of perceptible low bass response.

    Having said that, I'm investigating the Omni 10 2x10 configuration. It won't go as low as the CX-110, but it will be much louder, and with the neo Eminence speakers, about the same weight.
     
  17. The unwashed DIY approach is fraught with risks and likely to come out with junk. Those who slam a box together without a clue as to how it works or interacts with the driver, are begging for firewood.

    There is a huge amount of knowledge and effort that goes into a set of plans that actually work. Bill's plans work. Use them. Not only do the plans work, the Omni and other entry level plans are geared toward the neophyte, so they include all sorts of tips and tricks to make the job go smoothly.

    If one can read and follow instructions (difficult in Kalifornia), one can build an Omni and be completely pleased.
     
  18. pondus

    pondus

    Mar 28, 2006
    Thanks for all your feedback. As in turns out, I finally tried a CX110 at a music store. To my ears, it was a total piece of junk. Sounded like it was broken. I guess I'll keep using what I now realize is a great little cab: My old Traynor BLOC 80 with the amp ripped out resulting in a non ported 1x15 rated at 80 watts but somehow loud as hell and weighing only 30 lbs. Next, I'll try to build that Omni 1x10.
     
  19. Michael Vee

    Michael Vee Supporting Member

    Feb 3, 2004
    Knoxville, TN
    As a happy CX110 owner, I must beg to differ with the 'total piece of junk' assessment. It's a fine compact cab. Maybe the cab you tried had a bad driver.

    So, did you build the O10? If so, how'd it go?
     

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