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Eden D-18XL

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Bass-only, Nov 17, 2001.


  1. Bass-only

    Bass-only Supporting Member

    Oct 9, 2001
    Cleveland
    Hey Eden users! Whats your take on the D-18XL cabinet? How does is compare to the SWR Big Ben?

    I have an Eden D-210MBX. Would this make a nice companion for the Eden 210?

    Do you prefer a 15 or 18 under a 210 or 410 cabinet? Why?

    Thanks for your help!

    Bob
    keithcal@en.com
     
  2. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    I have not heard either the Eden or the SWR 1x18. When I was comparing cabinets "by spec", I was uneasy about the SWR because (at the time) they did not publish a sensitivity figure (and I don't really trust SWR's sensitivity claims, anyway right now - they don't make much sense on paper). Eden claims 100 dB for their 1x18. My comparison indicated that the SWR had a flatter response (better low frequency extension) than the Eden, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's also a little less efficient.

    Whether to go with an 18 or 15 depends a lot on the style of music you play and the types of venues you play in. If you play in moderate-sized venues and don't intend to rattle people's teeth out in the back row, a 15 can be adequate, especially for a 4-string (low E). Otherwise, a good 18 can do the trick.

    I decided to go with an Eden 2x15. It's a relatively compact and light design, sensitivity is 103 dB, moves more air than a typical 1x18 box, and has decent low end (flat ~40 Hz., roughly). I think it's probably a better performer overall than the Eden 1x18, and doesn't cost that much more. I stack a Carvin RC210 combo (2x10" plus tweeter) on top of the Eden, feed it with plenty of power, and it sounds really good to me. I have a 5-string, but I don't spend that much time below low E or Eb, I play funk, soul, R&B, jazz - and rock sometimes.

    - Mike
     
  3. Bass-only

    Bass-only Supporting Member

    Oct 9, 2001
    Cleveland
    Thanks, MikeyD for the advise!

    I play in a wedding band, where although we do run everything through the mains (which include EV 18 cabs on each side) - I do compete against a 1/2 Marshall stack (for stage volume).

    Am I correct in thinking that if I want more (close up) volume and bottom, that the 18 may not be the best route to go. Am I better off with a 15 or a 4x10 (to use with my 2x10 Eden?).

    I do like a tight low mid that's punchy (doesn't have to carry to the back of the room). I have the WT-800 so I can run 2 cabs full range or bi-amp them.

    Another question - for close up monitoring, would running 2 cabs full range or bi-amping give me a better (fuller) sound?

    Thanks again for the advise!
     
  4. RebelX

    RebelX Guest

    Oct 27, 2001
    Merrimack, NH
    I used to carry a pair of EV 18's and a pair of PV210-TX's with me to my shows (lot of outdoor gigs). Everything was running through the PA, but I had two guitarists on stage pushing up the volume. I found myself really turning up the volume on the 18's to get that nice feel and volume on stange unitl I went about 20' into the audience. The throw on an 18" is amazing. Sound guys used to complain becuase of the amount of bass I was pumping out that he couldn't control. For your stage volume, I'd add some more 10's to the mix, probably a 4x10, but that's because I now have band members that help move all the stuff :). YMMV.

    As for bi-amping, I did a little of that with the 18's/2x10 rigs. Every thing below 100hz went to the 18's with everything above going to the 2x10's. I ended up running everything full range and I liked the sound better. Once again, YMMV.


    Rebel X
     
  5. Gabu

    Gabu

    Jan 2, 2001
    Lake Elsinore, CA
    That is exactly what I just experienced. I liked the biamp sound. But the full range sound was richer. I am currently using a 210 on top of a 118.
     
  6. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    Hey, RebelX, welcome to TalkBass from a fellow New Hampshire-ite! As far as throw from big speakers goes, the preponderance of opinion is that big drivers/cabinets throw bass a lot farther. For a technical discussion of this, search for my thread on "throw" early this year. Interesting discussion.

    You're welcome. Thanks for starting an interesting thread (Amps could use more of them!). I suspect that, unless you are doing that "dub" stuff or extremely bass-heavy material, an 18 would be overkill and disappointing. A good 1x15 or 2x15 will put out plenty of decent bass for your needs, and with a good PA, adding a 4x10 might be all you'll need. Get someone trustworthy out in the audience areas to give an appraisal of the overall mix - or try buying or borrowing a wireless set-up so you can walk out there and listen to the balance.

    As mentioned, mileage may vary. I prefer full-range, but a few others in this forum like bi-amping. The engineer in me says bi-amping makes sense if you are using subwoofers that are useful up to maybe 100-200 Hz. or so. If you are using full-range speakers, then it makes less sense to bi-amp. The punchy low-midrange sound is primarily produced in the 300-500 Hz. region, in which most 10" drivers really shine. To get loud low fundamentals below 60 Hz., 15" and 18" drivers are usually superior (if their cabinets are big enough). Anyway a 2x10 plus 1x15 or bassy 4x10 might give you the sound you're after.

    - Mike
     
  7. SRSiegel

    SRSiegel Guest

    Sep 17, 2001
    Ann Arbor, Michigan
    ive got a 210 on top of an 18, with an R600 head. play rock, blues funk primarily. if you decide to buy an 18, make sure it is loud enough... my 18 sucks power, and i dont have the required wattage from my R600 to make it really thump that well. plus the crossover point is only at 200 Hz. i ended up runnign full range as well, it sounds a lot better to me.
     
  8. RebelX

    RebelX Guest

    Oct 27, 2001
    Merrimack, NH
    MikeyD, thanks for the "welcome". I think I was rude on an earlier post where you welcomed me, but I didn't acknowledge it. My bad.

    Hopefully Bob (who started this thread) has better luck than us in finding quality music shops where he can try out the majority of his options. I'm assuming you suffer from Newhampshireitus - The dreadful "I can't find enough stuff to try out to make a really good decision on what I want to buy" disease.

    I second your thoughts on borrowing a wireless to listen to how the band as a whole sounds. Every time I tried to get a feel for the sound by having someone play through my rig never worked out. However, if the PA is covering everyone equally (meaning plenty of bass in the mix) and everything sounds nice and balanced, moving the single 2x10 around on stage may be the only thing necessary. In clubs with a large PA, I typically didn't face my Triad towards the Audience. I would set it up as crosswash and slightly in front on me. This allowed me to get plenty of volume heading directly at me without torqueing off the sound man because the stage volume was to loud. My drummer liked it as well because he could hear me a little better. This is the cheaper solution, which I don't find nearly as satisfying. :D

    Take care,

    Matt
     
  9. Bass-only

    Bass-only Supporting Member

    Oct 9, 2001
    Cleveland
    Thanks again, guys for the great advise and comments! I was able to pick up a (virtually) new Eden D-18XL for under $300 - a deal I just couldn't pass up. For that price, I'll try it & if it doesn't seem to be the answer, I should be able to sell her for what I paid (or more). I'll let you know how it sounds (both bi-amped and full range).

    If it ends up being too much low end, competing with the fronts, I can always try the side-amp route, which I do (on occasion) anyway.

    Thanks RebelX and MikeyD!
     
  10. MikeyD

    MikeyD

    Sep 9, 2000
    Glad to help, Bass-only. An Eden 1x18 for $300 sure seems like a great deal. The ultimate way to balance it with your 2x10 is to drive it with a separate amp, slaved off the primary one, and EQ it separately as well. That way you can figure out exactly what the right balance and EQ are needed. My guess is that the Eden 1x18 isn't quite as muddy as some others, so it can probably do okay up to at least 1 kHz. If you cut the deep bass from hitting your 2x10, you should be able to have the respective cabinets do best in their most comfortable ranges. But barring two separate heads, you might play around and find the perfect balance with just one head. I just checked Eden's (very lame) web site - no info on crossover frequencies for their WT-800. You might try 100 Hz. as an initial bi-amp frequency and see how it sounds.

    Keep in mind that in some places you might hardly hear any bass out of that 18 while standing near it, but people on the opposite wall might be seeing blurry. It's a little tricky in that regard. I've played in such places with either my Carvin 1x18 or Eden 2x15. Sometimes I could hardly hear myself, but then stepping out another 10 feet I could see why people were dying from the vibration.

    RebelX - yeah, I was doing spec. comparison, and made a trek to Boston - but was disappointed in what Boston stores had for cabinets. I wound up ordering a cabinet "sight unseen"; I later cancelled the order when the NH dealer *finally* stocked his floor with lots of Eden stuff that I could audition. But TalkBass offers a new avenue for people to at least talk about equipment, which I've found very valuable in my own situation. If you read long enough, it can help you narrow down the choices.

    - Mike
     
  11. Steven Green

    Steven Green

    Jul 25, 2001
    Pacific NW
    MikeyD, I totally know what you are talking about. The last gig my band played I was approx. 7 feet from my rig (Eden 410xlt + 118xl) and had trouble hearing myself really well. After the show, one of my guitarists said the bass was shaking his eyeballs and the LEDs on his pedals! The audience said that the bass was punching them in the guts!!!:D

    Aw jeah!
     
  12. BigBohn

    BigBohn

    Sep 29, 2001
    WPB, Florida
    hey basism, thats a nice rig. I might be getting that exact thing pretty soon. Any comments about it? Since I'm not good at defining genres of music that I play, I'll just give you a few band names, and maybe you can tell me if those cab will perform well for them:

    Incubus
    RHCP
    Sevendust
    RATM
    A little classic rock i.e. Allman Brothers, Stevie Ray Vaughn

    A few others, but I'm basically playing around those bands. Advice would be nice.:)
     
  13. Steven Green

    Steven Green

    Jul 25, 2001
    Pacific NW
    That rig will do you just FINE! Same amp too? Let me know how you like it!
     
  14. Captain Awesome

    Captain Awesome

    Apr 2, 2001
    PDX
    The Big Ben's sensitivity's rated at 2 watts... sneaky.
     
  15. BigBohn

    BigBohn

    Sep 29, 2001
    WPB, Florida
    haha, you saw that too? thats why I didn't like the Big Ben because those stats really got me goin', its not fair like that to just change 1 number in the specs like that and make a huge difference between that and the Eden 118XL. Sneaky, as you said, sneaky sneaky sneaky SWR dudes. hehe:( ;)

    Cool, thanks. Umm, not quite that same amp. I won't have the Mesa as you do. I'm still in a mix up between this bunch of preamps, but at this level it will just be a matter of A/Bing them all and get the one I like the most tonewise:

    SWR IOD
    Eden Navigator
    Alembic F-1X
    Demeter VHBP-201 (correct model #?)
    Kern IP-777
    Aguilar (single rackspace preamp one)
     
  16. tdogg

    tdogg

    Jan 17, 2001
    Brooklyn Park, MN
    as several of the posts earlier in the thread stated:
    i also have found that with carvin stacks the bi-amp mode sounds good but ful range gives a much richer sound. i like the grunt of low freq going through a 4x10, under that i have a 15inch to keep the bottom nice and tight
     
  17. Steven Green

    Steven Green

    Jul 25, 2001
    Pacific NW
    Those are NICE pre's Bigbohn, let us know which one you choose...:)