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Eden EQ Clip (worse than seems)...munji?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Muttluk, May 11, 2001.


  1. ok, so i've got a Eden WT-800, though a d-4x10xlt (8ohms) and i run it mono bridged (so its a full 800 watts). I run the eq basicly where the ehnance is a 2 oclock, and everything else is basicly at 1, except the shelving, which is kept flat. I've had a problem twice so far... the volume just stops coming out of the amp, and the "EQ Clip light "lights" up. its not the "set level" light, which is the thing that flashes when i hit the strings too hard, but the "EQ Clip" which the manual says "should never light up when playing". I've had the problem twice (like mentioned above), once at medium volumes (master at 12 oclock, pre amp at 10 o'clock), and once again today at low (master at 11, preamp at 9). I'm concernd as to what this might be, i've checked all exterior plugs and everything. The fan isnt going on, and the amp isnt hot when the volume cuts out, so its not over heating, and i dont think its the tube, cause its a 98' model.

    Any guesses as to what it might be? munji... looking in your direction...
     
  2. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    eeek. This is a hard one, so to speak. As you know, I covet, but do not own, this amp. My little WT-300 doesn't have this feature. Well, lessee, lessee.

    OK, a couple of things. My guess is that, between the pre-amp gain and the EQ gain you're adding, you're driving some post-EQ amp stage into clipping. Whenever you turn an EQ setting past 12 o'clock, you're amplifying the signal. The first thing I'd try is cutting back the pre-amp gain and boosting your main volume to achieve the same volume and the same tone. As an alternative, you could try to achieve your tone by turning down all three bands of semi-parametric EQ, so that the presently boosted frequencies (bass and treble?) are flat (at 12 0'clock), and the mid is cut proportionately. This will give you the same relative levels between the frequencies, but will not add EQ gain to the signal path.

    Keep in mind that with Eden EQ, a little dab'll do ya. Also if you have your bass EQ frequency down real low, say, at 30 cycles, even a little boost is going to require a lot of power.

    Another thing to consider ... is the WT-800 rated at 800 watts bridged into 8 ohms or 4 ohms? Just curious.
     
  3. Munji: Actually, your little WT300 does indeed have that feature (the EQ Clip light, not the problem)--just look to the right of your treble shelving control.

    Muttluk: The EQ clip light on my WT300 would occasionally flash, but I never saw a loss of power. I'm with Munji, though--cut the preamp input level a bit, and bump up the master volume. Also, you might ease up on the "Enhance" a little bit--I always found I had to push a lot harder to be heard with it, myself, and 2 o'clock (on top of the bass shelving control set at 1 o'clock) will actually be boosting the lowest frequencies quite a bit.

    Still, you shouldn't be seeing these kinds of problems, even pushing the amp. My fear would be that it's something like a cold solder joint, which I've heard of being a problem in some Eden amps (though none of the ones I've owned). It would probaby be worthwhile contacting Eden about it.

    Mike
     
  4. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    I stand corrected. And I also forgot that the enhance knob boosts the lows and highs, so there's even more EQ gain. I doubt that it's a problem with the amp ... just too much gain early in the path.
     
  5. Mono bridged, the WT-800 is rated 800watts at 8 ohms. Kinda puzzles me why, but thats what the manual says, and what it says below the banana plug input. I have no clue why eden set it this way, it'd be a lot easyer to have it bridged 800w at 4ohms, so if you want to add another cab, you just run it sterio, with two 4 ohm cabs, and then you've got that same 800, but instead, you've gotta buy 2 more cabs ( one 8, and one 4) at least, to get the 800w again. That is my only point of confusion on this amp.


    Thanks for the help with everything, i'll try cutting back the eq, and let the power amp do all the work. (maybe i should convince my parents to let me buy another bass... since i need to eq a lot for the MIM Jazz, they should buy me a sadowsky or somthing, so that i can just run it flat.... ;)
     
  6. They did it this way because it's actually got two power amps, and to make it bridgable into 4 ohms, they'd have to make each of the two power amps/channels good to run down to 2 ohms. And if you make it so that it's putting out 400 watts/channel at 2 ohms, you're only getting about 240 watts/channel at 4 ohms, so folks that want to run in stereo rather than bridged mono are not getting full power without using at least 2 cabs per channel...it's a tradeoff either way. Besides, most 4x10s (which is what you'er most often going to be bridging into) are 8 ohms by default, and 4 ohms is optional.

    Anyway, the Metro has the only Eden power amp that I know of that's approved for 2 ohms, and it came out much later than the WT-800. (It suffers the same tradeoffs--you only get the rated 600 watts if you run it with 2 ohms, but the internal cab is 8 ohms, so it takes ate least 2 more cabs to get maximum power out of it....)

    Mike

    Mike
     
  7. ok, the problem hasnt gone away, and i'm starting to freak out. It happend with the eq flat, and the enhance at 1 oclock. pregain was at 9 oclock, and volume was at 2. I was slapping and it happend. I took a close look at what lights up, and what doesnt. I noticed that the "Mono-Bridged" light goes out, so that made me thing maybe thats where the problem is, but none of the power amp lights light up "a" or "b", it remains at "green" saying that the power amp isnt clipping, or getting in any unsafe area. I also realized that it didnt seem to click back over untill i hit the strings, and then it "poped" back. but that might have been coninsadince. Then when i had the bass set down, i wasnt even playing, and it happend again. This really freaked me out, beacuse i wasnt even playing, and it happend. I shut off the amp, and all the usual lights went off, and then, slowly the eq clip light went off, a good 30seconds later, then the mono-bridged light lit up, and then slowly went out.

    I tried calling eden, from the number on their web page, and it didnt seem to be the right number anymore. anyone know their new number?
     
  8. ok, i decided to take a look at the inside of my amp, just to see if there were any obvious things that shouldn't be the way the should be. First thing i noticed, and the only thing i noticed, the pre-amp tube was part way unpluged (i could see about 2-3 mm of the metal plugs), and at a partial angle, so i pulled it out, looked at it, and then pluged it back in, all the way, put the cover back on, and played the amp. One thing i noticed, was that the noise that i thought was because of the single coil jazz pu's, is gone, like i remember how it was when i originaly was, and i havnt had a problem with it switching over yet. So... i might have fixed it. I think i'll just change the tube all together though, just cause i feel the amp isnt was it used to be when i first go it. So... what's out there. I remember that monster thread about people saying what they liked, but i'll ask a more direct question. What tube will add a bit more "edge" on my tone, yet not get me to lose the eden tone?
     
  9. Well, the tube being partially out of its socket couldn't be good. OTOH, I really don't know enough to guess whether that solved the problem or not. I certainly hope so--good luck!

    Sorry, I have no tube recommendations--the couple times I've changed tubes, I just replaced them with the Groove Tubes that came in it. I'm sure there's been discussion elsewhere, though.

    Mike
     
  10. ok, the problem has kept coming on. I think it only happens right when i turn on the amp, cause i had the amp on for a bit, and it never happend, then i turned off the amp, came back a few hours later, turned it on, and the problem came back. I tried the ole' tap the tv trick, and realized that if i tap the top back left (facing the knobs on the front of the amp), it made a pop (just like it makes when it cuts out, and when it comes back). I also noticed that when i pull out the cable, when there is no sound, it makes a pop (this only happend with my monster cable, and when tried with a different cable, no sound, but i also was in sterio mode (only using the right channel), yet it still made the problem. I'm pretty sure its in the pre-amp, because if its in the left or right channel, it has the problem. Also, i figured out that not only does the "bridged mono" light go out, but so does that green power amp light.

    Please help me, this is really starting to freak me out, cause i dont want a $1,000 amp to crap out on me! especialy since i bought it used, so it has no warrenty!
     
  11. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Ick. It sounds like this amp is going to be needing a trip to the amp tech in your neighborhood.
     
  12. ok, i'm pretty sure i've figured out somthing else about the issue. It only happens one time, per turning on the amp. i turn on the amp, about 2 min. later, it cuts out, 1 min later, it comes back, and makes a pop (strong enough that when i'm standing infront of the amp, i feel my pants vibrate) and is the same volume dispite what the amp volume is at. and then it doesnt happen again, untill i shut down the amp, adn then start it up agian. what could it be?
     
  13. Angus

    Angus Supporting Member

    Apr 16, 2000
    Palo Alto, CA
    Mutt, make sure your cables are perfect, too.

    Also, if you do have serious problems with the amp that aren't your fault, talk to Bass NW, and they may know what to do and help.
     
  14. Angus, i emailed them, and i'm waiting on a responce. I've had the problem with two different cables, and their my best cables, so i'm pretty sure its not the guitar cable. Also, i cannot check the speaker cable, cause i only have one banana plug, and i dont have any speaker cables. I'm gonna try putting in a new tube, just to see if thats the fix, which i doubt. All i know, is that i'm pretty sure its the pre-amp, and not the power amp. As to why the light for the power amp goes off, as well as the "mono bridged" light goes out, i have no clue. my best guess, is that somthing is causing a short circut, and thats why the problem occurs, but what doesnt make sense is why it happens at the same time, and why it's fallowing a pattern. i'm going to take it to my guitar teacher, cause he fixes all of his own amps, and knows amps very well, so i'll ask him, and if he's got no clue, then i'll take it to a tech.
     
  15. I get the EQ Clip light and the amp stops putting out sound. I wasn't sure what it was and tried turning the volume down, adjusting things, unplugging the bass (short in the cord, I was wondering...) etc and nothing seemed to help. Was intermittent. Called in to Eden to see if there is some common issue with this head.

    The Eden techs, and the authorized service center tech agree that there is a problem with these amps (maybe fixed in newer ones than mine, mine's a July 2001 model). There are some parts that apparently unsolder themselves and it's a standard fix, approx $60 without warranty, I'm told (I imagine it's covered if you are still under warranty--the Eden folks will refer you to someone, have them look up your closest shops by telephone area code). I take it in tomorrow and we'll see if that's my problem and how well it gets fixed. The techs did both say that it's the only thing they've seen wrong with the WT-800, and once it's fixed you're good to go. I hope that's true, because I really like this amp. Will post a followup once I get it fixed so others can use the info.
     
  16. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    One thing to remember: Make sure that your Balance knob is turned all the way to the LEFT. I know, it's bridge mode, but you have to do this to get full power from the amp. Don't ask me why, but it's very true.
     
  17. maxbass

    maxbass

    May 22, 2002
    Milano Italy

    A little OT: The new WT550 indeed is approved for 2 ohms
     
  18. OK, 24 hours with the local Eden authorized service center and $54 later I'm fixed. "Power resistors" came loose/unsoldered, the shop fixed that and looked everything else over--clean bill of health for the WT.
     
  19. I wasn't sure what to make of it, but since the repair the sound seems fuller, more solid, and louder for given gain & master settings. At first I thought it was just me glad that my amp was fixed, but there's a significant difference in what I get out of the amp and where I set the knobs (I live in an apartment with thin walls and need to be mindful of this...)

    I played around with the Balance control and it's true that even in "non-biamp" mode it affects the input levels to the power amp sections (I just kind of set it at 12 o'clock and left it alone previously)--this is still a stereo amp. What I really need now is another 4-ohm 210XST cab to match my current one...these suckers really do take the place of a 15 or an 18, I cannot imagine what good one of those would do me with the XSTs (and I used to be *SURE* that no 10 produce enough frequency range...yeah, yeah I know.) This is the SCHTUFF!

    PS - Is is still considered GAS if you just want "more of the same"?
     
  20. RicPlaya

    RicPlaya

    Apr 22, 2003
    Whitmoretucky MI
    Since I have all the attention of the Eden users I was wondering if I could get some help. I have a WT800, it's awesome but I am confused in regards to this bridged, mono, stuff. I have an Ampeg HVT 4x10 4 ohm cab. It's a decent cab but what would I do to run it bridged. Connect one amp to another with a patch cord then into the cab? Also if I want to incorporate a 15 what would be the best way? This has been bothering me because right now I have one side powering my cab, I think I would get more punch running it bridged to give it the correct power (.08-1.25 x rms/ 400w cab needs 800w if the same rule of thumb follows in bass cabs as live speakers) Thanks!!!! :bassist: