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Eden navigator/mackie 1400i volume problem

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by LowfreqB, Nov 17, 2001.


  1. LowfreqB

    LowfreqB

    Nov 10, 2000
    United States
    I should of notice this when I was practicing at home. The mackie would be cranked to 12 o' clock in stereo mode (300 watts at 8 ohms) and this wasn’t all that loud to me. My Eden would be set near clip (the light only going off when I would slap all the strings at once) At the gig to compete with the band I had to crank channel one 4x10 8 ohm(which is what I had going at home) and channel two 1x15 4 ohm to about 3 o' clock. On the mackie forum they are convinced that the problems rest with my pre amp. This is because the mackie wasn’t anywhere near clipping. The single leval lights never got above -9. Is this normal?:confused: :confused: :confused:
     
  2. FalsehoodBass

    FalsehoodBass

    Jul 22, 2001
    Denver, CO
    what about the master volume on the navigator? gain?
    assuming your bass is cool... and all connections betwixt the preamp and poweramp, and poweramp and speaker, are solid... i've found the best thing to do is to crank your preamp, and then use the mackie's knobs for volume.. this works best for me. It also reduces unwanted noise and hiss ... but i have an ampeg svp so YMMV

    give it a shot.. see if it works... and yea if the signal lights on the mackie never go above -9, when its full on there definately should be a way to get some more volume on signal going in to it.

    also make sure in the back of the mackie... the low cut isn't turned up so you're cutting everything..

    hope i could help..
     
  3. Mario Lewis

    Mario Lewis

    Jul 6, 2001
    Clinton, MD
    Does your bass have active electronics? Check the battery.
     
  4. BigBohn

    BigBohn

    Sep 29, 2001
    WPB, Florida
    hey LowfreqB, how do you like the Eden Navigator? The features? Are they good quality? I was thinking of getting one and pairing it with a Carvin DCM2000 poweramp and a Eden D-410XST.
     
  5. LowfreqB

    LowfreqB

    Nov 10, 2000
    United States
    the Navigator is great amp, I love the tone it puts out, I just wish it was louder...anyway I have the gain set to 11:00 and the volume set to 11:00 as well. I run the bass boast up 2 points as well as the low freq up to points and the mids up 1 point. the high and treble are set flat. So the navigator is running near clip on both sides pre and post effects. My 1400i is running full boar with the volume one my 4x10 channel up to max. I think at 300 watts per 8 ohms that it should sound louder. I used the same cabinet with a swr 350 and I recall the 350 sounding louder.

    most of the time I use a stingray 5, but on the night of my last gig I was using my backup, a 57 reissue fender p bass.
     
  6. BigBohn

    BigBohn

    Sep 29, 2001
    WPB, Florida
    oh, ok. sounds like a good preamp. do you like the compressor or the enhance features? the semi-para EQ? the tube overdrive? also, maybe you should look into a new cabinet thats more efficient than that Carvin 4x10, maybe an Eden 4x10. They are great cabs, and it would match your Navigator. just a suggestion.
     
  7. LowfreqB

    LowfreqB

    Nov 10, 2000
    United States
    The E.Q. and compressor are great, and make for a great studio amp. The overdrive on mine could be broken because I havent noticed any difference in the sound when I use it. The enhance works similar to SWR type. I dont use it because it takes out to many of the mid frequencies. As for the comment about switching to an eden cab I agree, anyone got $800 you want to loan me????? ;)
     
  8. neptune

    neptune

    Feb 2, 2001
    Maryland
    I had a similar problem when I first started using my Navigator/QSC PLX-2402 combo. I believe it was one of the members here who steered me in the right direction. Put the preamp input volume (the left control knob on the Navigator) to zero, the Mackie and preamp gain (the right control knob on the Navigator) both FULL. Adjust the preamp input knob to the desired volume. It's worked great for me ever since.
     
  9. LowfreqB

    LowfreqB

    Nov 10, 2000
    United States
    I will give that a try tonight thanks
     
  10. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    I have an Eden Navigator run through the Carvin DCM2000, and its phenominal. I sometimes go full range through a 4x10, and sometimes bi-amped through a 4x10 and a 2x15 cab.

    I never had a loss of headroom, and I've played LOUD at times at some outdoor gigs, with plenty of low end. I run the power amp on 10, the master gain on the pre on 10, and use the pregain as the volume. I found I get the best punch that way, as well as the most headroom (YMMV).

    I swapped out the original 12ax7 tube in the Eden pre with a Sylvania 5751 I got on Ebay for around $10. Best investment I ever made. It transformed the tube gain knob from a grating distortion device into a warm punch control that I usually keep around 12:00 setting full time.

    The Carvin 2000 amp is a bit heavier and is one rack space larger than the QSC's, but the price can't be beat for the performance.
     
  11. boogiebass

    boogiebass

    Aug 16, 2000
    Good advice for solid state gear. Won't allow you to overdrive the pre-amp, of course, but you probably don't want to do that anyway. You may want to experiment with the right knob on 3 o'clock instead of full, also.
     
  12. Jerry J

    Jerry J Supporting Member

    Mar 27, 2000
    P-town, OR
    I have the same setup as Neptune with the Nav/PLX 2402 and it is screaming loud with oodles of headroom. I'm just running one side into an Aguilar GS410. HOLY SMOKES this setup thumps! I couldn't imagine running bridged mode or even making any low freq tone adjustment other than flat on the Nav or the Sadowsky 5.

    Have you tried the Mackie on bridged mono? I don't know what the specs are for the Mackie but your Carvin cab should be fairly efficient. Just out of curiosity is there an input impedence switch on the Mackie? It might be labeled (from memory) -2.47dB or -26...geez something like that?

    Please let us know what you find out.
     
  13. LowfreqB

    LowfreqB

    Nov 10, 2000
    United States
    The mackie doesnt appear to have an input impedence switch on either the front or rear panal. Perhaps the problem is the way I hook up my eden and mackie. I like to run the rig in mono. The eden has 2 channels out a high and low (for bi-amping). I dont use the bi amp feature, so the two outputs run the same signal. There are 2 main outs (each high and low) 1/4 outs and balanced R.C.A.'s. I run one 1/4 inch cable from either high or low, (because its the same signal) to the 1/4 input of the mackie. please tell me if I'm doing anything wrong.
     
  14. Jerry J

    Jerry J Supporting Member

    Mar 27, 2000
    P-town, OR
    I was wrong. The switch would be labeled "sensitivity" . My Crown CE1000 has this switch but I don't think that my QSC does.

    I wasn't able to log on to the Mackie website to look at their manual. I don't know what the amp is rated for an 8 ohm load but with 1400 watts bridged in 4 ohms. I'd estimate maybe 850-1100 watts into your cab. Are you sure you've set the Mackie up for bridged mono? The rest of the hookup sounds right. That rig should be painfully loud.

    I will go through all my settings to see if I can figure what's going on. I don't think that there is any problem with the Nav.
     
  15. LowfreqB

    LowfreqB

    Nov 10, 2000
    United States
    The mackie has a switch in the back to go between stereo mono and bridged mono. there is also a frequency limiter that lets you can set the lowest frequency signal going to the speaker. The front panel has 2 ltd's they show the signal leval coming from the pre amp. I barely light the lowest light above the signal ltd. The set up should be loud, but my navigator is not puting out enough signal.
     
  16. VicDamone

    VicDamone

    Jun 25, 2000
    I'm another Navigator/QSC PLX 2402 user. LowfreqB, when you say your preamp was clipping are you refering to the stereo output meters in the upper left corner or the input gain overload diode next to the input gain knob? Turning the amps gain down and the preamps gain and master up will run the preamps output meters into the red.

    Are you hearing any clipping (crackling, cuffing, dropouts, etc.)?
     
  17. neptune

    neptune

    Feb 2, 2001
    Maryland
    Tech types, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think LowFreqB also needs to look into the Mackie's input voltage. You want to try to match the preamp output voltage to the power amp input voltage, correct? The Eden manual mentions the "Output Limiter Switch", an internal switch that selects the output voltage between 1.4 and 2.8 volts RMS. I think this could be affecting the volume also.
     
  18. BigBohn

    BigBohn

    Sep 29, 2001
    WPB, Florida
    hah, he might be right. check it out.
     
  19. LowfreqB

    LowfreqB

    Nov 10, 2000
    United States
    Thanks again everyone for your help, When I say clipping I mean at times I run into the red, and at times the diode next the gain will light. I just turn down either the master or gain to keep myself out of clip.

    as for the internal limiter switch, I turn off the limiter. But perhaps there is some other limiter inside switch inside. I will check on it.
     
  20. Jerry J

    Jerry J Supporting Member

    Mar 27, 2000
    P-town, OR
    LowfreqB, when you are talking about the LEDs are you referring to the ones on the Nav or on the Mackie?

    If you are not getting anything lighting on the Nav (these should be the ones in the upper right hand corner) then you are not getting enough signal into the preamp.

    If it is LEDs on the Mackie then those are indicating the output of the Mackie.

    If you had a bass with a onboard preamp then you should be able to plug directly into the Mackie and get sound.

    Just out of curiosity...how do you have your semi-parametric tone knobs set? The 12 o'clock position is where there is no affect on the tone i.e. no cut or boost.

    Also, how do you have your "mode" switch set? Stereo or Bi-amp?:confused: