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Eden Navigator Question...or maybe a QSC question??

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by JehuJava, Sep 20, 2004.


  1. JehuJava

    JehuJava Bass Frequency Technician

    Oct 15, 2002
    Oakland, CA
    I recently aquired the Eden Navigator pr-eamp. I used to run through the Aguilar DB-659. I seems as if the the Navigator requires much more power from my QSC PLX-3402 to achieve the same apparent volume.

    With the DB-659 I ran it through the PLX in a single channel mode to my Aguilar GS-410. This thing was loud! I had the gain set at 10:00 and the master set at 3:00. I kept the PLX volume at about 3:00.

    With the Navigator I am running through the PLX bridged. I have the gain at 12:00 and the master at 3:00. Anymore and and the level indicators stay in the red. I have the PLX cranked. The overall apparent volume is much much less. The PLX levels don't appear to be all that high. I would say they were higher with the DB-659. I feel a lot more air coming from the GS-410 though, but that's it.

    Am I doing something wrong? Help...need to keep up with a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier.

    Alan
     
  2. jobu3

    jobu3 Artist formerly known as Big Joe

    Feb 17, 2002
    Mountain Top, PA
    I'd bet money that your Speakon is still wired for stereo. It needs to be rewired for bridging or buy one wired for bridging.
     
  3. jobu3

    jobu3 Artist formerly known as Big Joe

    Feb 17, 2002
    Mountain Top, PA
  4. JehuJava

    JehuJava Bass Frequency Technician

    Oct 15, 2002
    Oakland, CA
    I'm pretty sure I changed it properly. I will verify the settings though. I've been kinda wondering if I did it correctly.

    Alan
     
  5. Nick man

    Nick man

    Apr 7, 2002
    Tampa Bay
    Just turn it down at the Eden side of things so it doesnt hit the red zone and turn it up at the PLX. You wont have a problem pusing the PLX to its max with that preamp. I know my nav pushes my QSC without any problems at all.
     
  6. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    I've got your problem solved, although the posts above are good things to check and verify.

    Inside the Navigator is an internal output sensitivity switch. The casing has to be taken apart to access it. It is on the circuitboard right behind the front panel, where the crossover knob is located. Press that switch and I'm willing to bet your issue is solved.
     
  7. JehuJava

    JehuJava Bass Frequency Technician

    Oct 15, 2002
    Oakland, CA
    I've been wondering what that switch actually did. It was mentioned in the manual a little bit, although not so clearly.

    Alan
     
  8. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Gotta love TalkBass! I learn something new every day!

    Thanks, Eric! I haven't had any problems driving my PLX 3002 with my Navigator (in fact, I never set the gain on my QSC past 12 o'clocl), but this is good information to know.

    Later, Tom.
     
  9. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    Eden's manual is "clear as mud" on that switch. Barely mentions it, doesn't specify which setting is "in" and which setting is "out". You just have to try it both ways to see what is best for you.

    I had to DECREASE mine, as my Nav was distorting into my QSC with pregain and master both at about 4. Now, I can push my QSC all the way if need be. I suspect that my QSC (purchased used) may have had the input sensitivity mod prior to me purchasing it, and with the Eden the mod isn't needed, so the decrease really helped for me.
     
  10. bassisten

    bassisten

    Sep 15, 2004
    Bergen, Norway
    - a thing about power amps!


    Ok guys, I don`t know if you all do this, but it`s VERY important to turn the power-amp ALL UP and regulate your volume-level on the preamp!

    If you wonder why some old power-amps have no volume-knob then it`s because they`re built to go with "full speed" all the time.


    Greetings...
     
  11. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Well, opinions do vary on this topic. I was always told to maximize your signal (without clipping) so that you are amplifying as little "noise" as possible. This would mean using the volume controls on the amp to help regulate overall volume. As I recall, in a prior thread on this topic, Bob Lee agreed with me (and others) and took the same position.
     
  12. Eric Moesle

    Eric Moesle Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2001
    Columbus OH
    In all fairness, there's a level of personal preference on that debate. I find it best for MY playing to create a balance between the two for the best headroom. If I run my QSC 3002 flat out and use my preamp to control volume, I get volume but no "oomph" in my tone. If I run my preamp full on and use the poweramp to control volume, I get unwanted distortion. A balance between the two works for me. Diffr'nt strokes for diffr'nt blokes . . .
     
  13. Nick man

    Nick man

    Apr 7, 2002
    Tampa Bay
    I couldnt do that even if I wanted.

    My preamp puts out such a hot signal that with the master set under 9:00 Im still clipping my 900 watt QSC even with the levels turned down nice and low on that.
     
  14. jawzzz

    jawzzz

    May 23, 2003
    Denver Colorado
    If you are bridging the amp, you have to turn the balance knob on the Navigator to either the left or right depending on which output you are using.
     
  15. JehuJava

    JehuJava Bass Frequency Technician

    Oct 15, 2002
    Oakland, CA
    Really? I don't remember the balance knob doing anything. I will try tonight along with the other suggestions. I will report back my findings.

    Thanks everyone.

    Alan
     
  16. Nick man

    Nick man

    Apr 7, 2002
    Tampa Bay
    If you have the amps inputs set to parallell then you can use both outputs and use it as a blend between the sides.

    Useful if you have effects on each side or are using the crossover.
     
  17. Tim Cole

    Tim Cole

    Jun 12, 2002
    Findlay, Ohio
    Dang, something is terribly wrong here. I run my nav with a low end, high power crown. I dime the power amp, and my navigator settings are as follows: Gain 10-11 o'clock, and master NEVER above 9 o'clock. It is loud enough to knock down small buildings, and I am lucky if I ever even see the second set of indicators on the preamp.
     
  18. jobu3

    jobu3 Artist formerly known as Big Joe

    Feb 17, 2002
    Mountain Top, PA
    I think taking it out of bi-amp (bi-amp button off) defeats that. I'd have to side with Tim here and say something is definitely amiss. If the speakon is wired correctly, and it is all hooked up right, there is something wrong with the preamp itself. Mine probably has the hottest signal of any preamp I've tried and I've tried them all. I think it has a hotter signal than the 659 too... I was able to A/B them when I got both a month or two ago. The 659 was not my glass of milk.
     
  19. jawzzz

    jawzzz

    May 23, 2003
    Denver Colorado
    Taken from the NavigatorOperators manual:

    Balance Control
    The balance control operates as both the left/right balance during normal stereo operation as well as the high/low balance when the unit is in the Bi-amp mode. This is nice for adjusting level balance between dissimilar loud speakers.

    It works this way on mine. I have to have it to one side or the other when I bridge the power amp and run mono signal from the Navigator.
     
  20. jobu3

    jobu3 Artist formerly known as Big Joe

    Feb 17, 2002
    Mountain Top, PA
    Hmmm. Well I'll be. I just leave mine flat, because turning it in either direction never seemed to do anything in stereo. :meh: Also note: I bought it used without a manual and I can't D/L the new version of Adobe for some reason so I haven't been able to read it. :ninja: