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Eden VS. Trace Elliot ??

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by 43% burnt, Aug 18, 2005.


  1. 43% burnt

    43% burnt an actor who wants to run the whole show

    May 4, 2004
    Bridgeport, CT
    I'm thinking about getting an Eden head. The WT800B looks killer...never played one though. Also the WT550 is looking pretty sweet to me. I've played through one briefly in a store, but didn't get too well acquainted with it. I liked what I heard, and wanted to get some opinions on this or other Eden heads. I'm also very intrigued by the all tube VT300B...kinda $teep but looks real nice.

    I've been a big-time Trace Elliot enthusiast for the past couple years. I currently have an AH250 GP7sm which I absolutely love. I will remain faithfull to TE for many years to come. I love the tone, quality and versatility of their amps.

    So I'm wondering how does Eden compare to Trace Elliot in terms of tonal differences, quality, versatility etc... I know the Eden sounds is a little more "hif-fi" than Trace...but from my experience it wasn't too "hifi" for my taste. I like a little color w/ lots of mid/low-mid punch. I play a G&L L2000 through 2 Bag End cabs (S15-d & S15x-d). I have a feeling adding an eden to the mix would be tone heaven.

    Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. :)
     
  2. Chef

    Chef Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    May 23, 2004
    Columbia MO
    Staff Reviewer; Bass Gear Magazine
    I've never played Trace anything, no chance to...

    Having said that, I sold my Mesa 400+ for an eden wt800B. The MB just didn't get it with double bass, and I need my gear to be able to do both;) I settled on the wt800B because I've been using an Eden Navigator with a qsc/plx for a while now, and I really like it.

    I like the eden stuff very well.
     
  3. permagrin

    permagrin

    May 1, 2003
    San Pedro, CA
    I've become an Eden fan. More hi-fi than TE, but not like other brands known for being hi-fi, Eden is a, let's say, slightly colored sound, but in a very good way. Maybe organic is a good word, whatever. The eq on Edens are powerful, and it's a bit ironic how people say the eq is so versatile and whatnot - but generally set it pretty flat.

    I have an Eden WT330 and a Trace AH350 GP7sm, and about two months ago I A/B'd them through an Eden D210MBX and a Genz 112T. I've had the Eden for about a year or so now, the Trace I'd only had for a week or so. I used my '73P that night which I generally take to blues jams and such 'cause it always sounds pretty solid through just about any amp. I was playing with a medium loud drummer and a guitar, plus vocals.

    I started with the Trace, and started with everything flat and worked my way from there, first with the preset stuff, then giving/taking eq, etc. I never really found a tone I wanted - either the bass would disappear in upper ranges or it'd be too boomy or whatever. When I found a setting that sounded adequate, it wouldn't keep up with the band and I was wanting headroom. And pushing it kinda hard made it get nasally/honky.

    After an hour or so we took a break and I hooked up the Eden. It sounded solid from the get-go, I felt like I was in control of the band, driving things again, and the group instantly found a groove - mine. I didn't touch the eq, it was flat but for one click up on the mids at 550Hz, enhance at 8 or 9 o'clock (my starting point, didn't move it after that). And I didn't push it as hard to get the volume. They are rated at relatively the same power, 330/350 watts, but I think the real difference is that the Eden power is cleaner throughout the range while the Trace got harsh when pushed.

    Now, I was more familiar with the Eden than the Trace when I did this little swaperoo. Now that I've worked with the Trace I can get a real nice sound out of it, but only for low to medium volume. Before buying it I read stuff (probably here) like "ungodly loud" and "stupid loud" but that wasn't really my experience - and if anything the Eden was a bit louder.

    With an L2k and those Bag Ends, I can't imagine you'd be disappointed by a 800b or a 550, and I'd bet you'll be very satisfied. I'm realizing the best thing to me is that with the Eden head I'm no longer a knob-tweaker - I count on it to deliver, it does, then I just focus on playing.

    I'll also encourage you to visit the Eden forum, www.eden-electronics.com/forum, for a wealth of help and opinions on Eden amps from a wide range of users.
     
  4. 43% burnt

    43% burnt an actor who wants to run the whole show

    May 4, 2004
    Bridgeport, CT
    Very interesting thoughts. Good comparison, I was hoping to hear from people who own/owned both. I felt the same way about the Eden tone, it's very clean but has a little color to it. More hi-fi than my trace but not too much for my taste.

    I've found my trace to be very loud. Volume has rarely been a problem. I suppose it differs alot with other basses, but my G&L is so hot I've never had to turn past 5 on the master.
     
  5. Chef

    Chef Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    May 23, 2004
    Columbia MO
    Staff Reviewer; Bass Gear Magazine
    Another fine option is the Thunderfunk line. They actually sound pretty similar to Eden, and offer one more band of semi-para eq...I own both a TFB420, and the previously mentioned Eden units, and find I can use them interchangably...both units have *powerful* eq sections, and set flat are real good starting points....
     
  6. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    I've never played or even heard a Trace bass amp, but compared to Eden, I'm sure they suck.
     
  7. DEVILMAN

    DEVILMAN

    Nov 24, 2001
    New York,NY
    +1...LMFAO...ROFL!!!...


    ~S~
     
  8. Planet Boulder

    Planet Boulder Hey, this is a private residence...man Supporting Member

    Nov 10, 2001
    6,482 feet above sea level
    I once had impure thoughts. Oh, and I pluck my ear hair.
    I've owned several Trace heads, so it should be obvious that I am a TE fan. That said, I have ALWAYS liked Eden and, given the choice, I would personally take an Eden head over a TE head, but that's mainly because I prefer less coloration and a more hi-fi tone (which is why i am now a big G-K fan).

    Eden colors the tone just enough, but without being overbearing, in my opinion. A lot of people think the Trace coloration is a bit much and that it isn;t very versatile.
     
  9. DEVILMAN

    DEVILMAN

    Nov 24, 2001
    New York,NY
    ...for everyones info, I own both & LOVE them equally. Neither can replicate the other...


    love,
    ~S~


    PS: Variety is the spice of life...
     
  10. brooklynbassguy

    brooklynbassguy Supporting Member

    Feb 8, 2004
    maplewood, nj, usa
    I've owned both, and recently got a 550 for backline. They are sweet sounding, and the eq is great. A little goes a long way. Trace is a completely different animal, also great. I do find Trace is more present in large halls than Edens. In smaller rooms, it's apple and oranges. The weight factor on the other hand...Traces are so darn heavy. When will somebody invent an amp that carries itself to small money gigs? :meh:
     
  11. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    +1 all the way around.
     
  12. Jugghaid

    Jugghaid

    Jun 28, 2002
    Denver, CO, USA
    I actually got rid of my Eden Navigator + Stewart World 1/2 setup when I got the Trace V6. I just like the all tube trace stuff much better than anything else. I went through a ton of amps trying to find the "one" for me.

    I actually did a shootout of about 20 different amps when I did this. Everything from SS to Hybrid to all tube.

    Here's an excerpt from one of the rounds where I tested the Eden WT800 and the Trace V6.

    Eden WT-800:

    I had been looking at this amp or a Navigator + WT-1000 poweramp for a long time. I just like the Eden tone and hey, it matches my cabs. 

    Features: 8
    This is a really versatile amplifier. The front panel has an input gain, enhance, bass, treble and 3 band semi-parametric EQ. Then the Master Volume and Crossover controls. I found that the best way to dial in you tone on this thing is to leave pretty much flat so far as the EQ goes and dial in a good basic tone using the enhance knob. Then just little tweaks with the EQ to fine tune it and you’re set. I can see how people would get frustrated with this amp if they over EQ it. It’s very easy to do. The crossover works very very well with balance and frequency adjustments which are a great feature. Plenty of juice in this amp as well. The built in compression works pretty well too.

    Sound: 8.5 If I wouldn’t have tested it against a lot of other really good amps, I probably would have rated it higher. This thing really sings. Great punch and clarity and you can get a nice growly midrange out of it as well. It’s very well matched to the speakers I used, as obviously they are meant to go together. I can’t think of a bad thing to say about this amp except that if you are a knob tweaker, you will kill yourself trying to EQ it when it’s actually very simple.

    Overall Quality: 9: As far as I can tell, this thing is bulletproof.


    Overall rating: 8.5

    This is one hell of a professional amplifier. There’s a reason so many touring pros use it. It sounds great, has tons of power, and used properly, pretty much takes care of itself soundwise. I would recommend this amp to anyone anywhere anytime. Very impressive. Much better IMO than the WT-300 I played previously.


    Trace Elliot V6:

    After buying the V-Type 600H hybrid version of this head, Bob Nyswonger egged me on into finding this one (or a V8) and god damn, am I glad he did.

    Features: 8
    After playing the Eden and Ashdown heads, and having a little more time with this one since I shelled out the cash and bought it, here’s the conclusion I have come to. Simple is better. This amp is simple. Input, Bass, Mid, Treble, Volume and a deep and a bright switch along with mid boost if you want it. Cant get a whole lot simpler than that. Same DI setup as everyone else too. This amp doesn’t have a ton of features…..because it doesn’t need them,

    Sound: 10 I played this thing with the EQ set absolutely flat and my drummer just about **** himself. My guitar player (who uses nothing but all tube heads) looked at me and said “I told you tubes are just plain better”. I didn’t believe it but I do now. This is coming from a guy that played Glockenklang for the last year or so and SWR before that. I’m officially a convert. Tubes sound better. You will never hear a more powerfully crystal clear punch in the face, kick in the nuts tone than you will get from this amp. Period. You want growl, dial it up with the gain. You want a slap sound that will knock the books of your neighbors bookshelves 3 doors down, turn the amp up a little. I also now get the tube watts vs. SS watts argument. No contest. 400W of clean all tube power from this thing smoked the Eden and the SVT-4PRO from the earlier review.

    Overall Quality: 9: I have heard about reliability problems with Trace tube heads, but this one has all the factory mods to keep that from happening. I did a bit of research and got a lot of great info from a few guys on a few different boards and I was flat out told not to even worry about it. I’m gonna keep the other Trace head for a year or so just to put my mind at ease, but it’s built very solid. I used to work on nuclear reactors for a living and this amp has a very high quality of construction.

    Overall rating: 9.99

    You have to hear one and play through it to understand.

    Final Conclusions:
    It’s really very, very close. Several of these amps are just excellent units and you really can’t go wrong with them period. I would have to say that the 1969 SVT, the SVT Classic and the Trace are the clear winners here over the rest of the field. While many of the other amps are really fantastic in their own right (especially the Eden WT800and the Ashdown), they just didn’t have “it” like these three heads do. It’s gotta be the bottles. The tube power section makes a big difference whether you believe it or not.

    After going through Several Ampegs (the entire SVT line I think), Genz Benz, Euphonic Audio, Yorkville, SWR, Eden, Tech 21, Glockenklang, Sunn, Gallien-Kreuger, Ashdown, and a couple of Trace Elliot heads, I can honestly say that the absolute best tone comes from the Trace Elliot V6. The only thing the SVT has over it is the overdrive and I can add that on with outboard gear and EQ. Plus I don’t play with overdrive much,

    The Trace on the other hand has a presence when you play through it that none of the other amps had. It was like the difference between knocking on a door and kicking it down with a sledgehammer. I have never in my life heard an amplifier that can sound so powerful at low volumes as this amp does. Maybe that doesn’t make sense, but if you play one it will. It doesn’t have to be loud to be heard and heard well. The tone is just there. And if you need it to be loud, it will deliver. Oh God, will it deliver. You could easily run two 810 cabs from this head and start an earthquake if you wanted to. 400 ****ing tube watts? I never knew.
     
  13. Chef

    Chef Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    May 23, 2004
    Columbia MO
    Staff Reviewer; Bass Gear Magazine
    Jugghaid: my only addendum to your post (aside from personal preference, and more on that in a sec) is that the new WT800B is more powerfull than the old unit, 1100 watts bridged into 4 ohms, which mates well with my Schroeder 410.

    My personal preference after loving a Mesa 400+ for some time changed when I started playing double bass more. The Mesa just could not hang with that. My eden navigator is probably one of my favorite all time pieces of gear due to additional features like several adjustable di's, compressor and limiter, stereo and biamp modes that the 40+ did not offer.

    But, these are personal preferences, and only that;)

    All pretty high end stuff we're taklking about-it's not like we're arguing Eden (or Trace) vs Peavey or Crate :ninja:
     
  14. 43% burnt

    43% burnt an actor who wants to run the whole show

    May 4, 2004
    Bridgeport, CT
    Iteresting thoughts guys. Nice reviews. Yeah a Trace tube amp will pretty much smoke any amp out there...IMO. Given the choice I'd be all over one. Seems like they're only around when I'm broke though. :(

    I know that its apples and oranges...each delicious in their own way. I just wanna investigate this current case of GAS, before running out and buying another amp.

    Edit: I'm really liking the WT800B. Very powerfull amp, with alot of great features. I'm wondering if I really need all that though. Besides the obvious power difference, how does the WT550 stack up with the WT800B?
     
  15. Jugghaid

    Jugghaid

    Jun 28, 2002
    Denver, CO, USA
    Probably 90% of my review is personal preference. :)
     
  16. 43% burnt

    43% burnt an actor who wants to run the whole show

    May 4, 2004
    Bridgeport, CT
    bump...anyone?
     
  17. Chef

    Chef Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    May 23, 2004
    Columbia MO
    Staff Reviewer; Bass Gear Magazine
    43%, my only advise for you (not having ever seen or played a 550) is to trip over to the eden site and compare faceplates and features. Download thier respective owners manuals and see if the differences b/t them add up to anything to you. As much as I like the WT800B, I like the Navigator even a little more for it's few more options.

    That should confuse you some more;)

    If you like the eden sound, I don't think you'll be disappointed by either.

    I had the Nav first, and liked it enough that when I sold the mesa, the 800 seemed like a great "don't need a rack and poweramp" kinda choice. Can't let gear money just sit there unused, and I already had a TFB420, which was the other standalone choice that interested me.