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Eden WT-800

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by DRN, May 7, 2003.


  1. DRN

    DRN

    Mar 17, 2002
    Las Vegas
    Need some help.

    I need some help. I hae a Eden W 800. I also have (2) 4 ohm 410XLT cabs and recently borrowed a Eden 215XLT 8 ohm cab.

    My problem is this. When I run either rig (410 stereo or 215 bridged) I run out of headroom and the rig is not that loud. I also can not seem to get a nice clean tone. I always have to put in alot of highs to clean up the lows. Then the lows sound clanky. If I clean up the lows I have no volume at all.

    Quick settings from memory.
    Pre gain 11-12 o'clock enhance 1 o'clock bass 10 o'clock mid 9 o clock both trebs about 1 o'clock master vol about 12 o'clock.
    I have started flat with the enhance off and this is as close to the tone as I can get. At this eq setting I have no volume and the amp is clipping on the low notes. I can never get that awsome tone or not clip the amp lights near the master switch.

    Here is some of my problem for the tone. (at least i think) I use a pick 75% of the time (adds treble) and I also tune as follows starting with the b string A-D-A-D-G
    I have a Warwick streamer 2 and a warwick thumb neck thru. They are set almost flat with the pick up selector even between both pups.

    Any reason for no headroom and any thoughts on settings. I play in a heavy band and the guitar player uses a 7 string for the low parts.

    Thanks,
    Dave
     
  2. DRN

    DRN

    Mar 17, 2002
    Las Vegas
    Sorry I must have blanked when I was typing.

    Each 410 cabinet is rated for 4 ohms

    The 215 is an 8 ohm load it is not listed on the web site but you can order this configuration.

    Basically I was borrowing the 215 so I could bridge the cab into 800 watts for more power (the WT 800 can not bridge at 4 ohms so I could not try this with the 410) and I was thinking since my tuning is lower the 215 cab may be better for the lows. I figured bigger more rounded powerful sound but it sounds just like my 410 rig. The 215 is a little more rounded in the upper register but otherwise the same. Still clipping the power amp and about the same if not a little less volume. (maybe because the 215 is smaller and both 410's are up around my head.


    As for being stumped me too.
     
  3. You should be getting 400 watts into each 4x10 running in stereo off the 800 - you should have no volume problems there I shouldn't think .......

    I have a Navigator currently and run into one 4x10XLT and have no problem being heard over two guitarists. I use the same tuning as you in that band.

    I realize its a different setup ... and I have no real idea how to help you at the moment ......... I do however, have most of the EQ on the Nav set flat (a little bit of EQ boosts on the Eden's really add a lot to the signal) and my Enhance is set about 10 o'clock ...... but the pregain is about where yours is (main volume is different issue since I'm using a poweramp).

    I do have an 800 on the way to me though ...
     
  4. DRN

    DRN

    Mar 17, 2002
    Las Vegas
    Sanctum,

    What kind of power amp are you running and how much is it rated for?

    Is your 410 4 ohm or 8 ohm. I am thinking maybe the WT 800 just does not have enough power to push those kind of lows.

    You are the only other bass player I have heard use this tuning. Not that it is special just low and loose on the b string.
     
  5. My XLT is 8 ohm

    The QSC 1850HD will do 360 per side at 8ohms, or bridged it'll do like 1200. Either way, I get plenty of volume. I've heard the WT-800 through the same cab (bridged @ 800 watts, the 8 ohm cab) and it sounds killer. Like I said before, 400 watts into each 4x10 should be killing your ears. Maybe there is something wrong with your 800? Do you know when it was last serviced?

    That tuning isn't so low, its only a step down. Actually I'm tuned down a full step across all five strings. I've heard and seen lower.
     
  6. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Looks like this amp has 2 seperate 400w amps that can each handle 4 ohms. 800w into 2x 410xlt's should be deafening!

    My advice - buy earplugs. Or get everyone to turn down.

    Just out of curiosity. What guitar amp(s) are you competing with?
     
  7. DRN

    DRN

    Mar 17, 2002
    Las Vegas
    Yeah i should be deaf. But not I have trouble getting up and out without clipping. Lately rehersal level is quiet. The PA is very low and just the vocal monitor cluster is up. I not saying I can not get over that but the damn thing should not clip at that level.

    I think something is wrong. I am only playing with one guitar player and he is only using a mesa 4 x 12

    I am off to rehersal I am going to try some things tonight. I will update in the morning.
     
  8. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    hmmm.. is there anything in your bass signal that may be making the input signal a bit hot?

    Maybe try turning the pre-gain down and turning the master up to compensate. I've found this adds headroom, but it may also add noise. Worth a try though.
     
  9. narud

    narud Supporting Member

    Mar 15, 2001
    santa maria,california
    your headroom problems look like theyre probably caused because youve got your eq set up for fieldy tone which takes a whole heck of a lot of power to get loud and be heard in a heavy setting.
     
  10. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    OK, first, I'd set the master volume a full, so all your headroom is available. Adjust your volume with the gain knob. With your enhance at 1 o'clock, you're adding bass and treble, while taking bass away by setting the bass at 10 o'clock. Put the enhance at 9 o'clock. Put the three semi-parametric volumes all at noon. Start with your bass and treble shelves at noon. Maybe back off the treble shelf to 11:30. If you want additional bottom, first try adding with the shelf. If you don't like that, put the shelf back at noon, move the parametric bass to 1 o'clock, and adjust the frequency while playing some low notes. Adjust it until it doesn't suck.

    The main thing is, with Eden EQ, a little dab'll do ya. You get much beyond 1 o'clock on any of the EQ knobs, and you're headed for tone hell. You need some mids in there to cut through the mix. That's why you want to go easy on the enhance knob.

    Also, if you're tuned to a low A, keep in mind that low frequencies consume TONS of power. That low A will clip your amp quick as a bunny (it's only 27.5 hz, for god's sake). The key is not to overdo the bass in your EQ. I really don't think you can get all the mud out if you're tuned to A. The human ear will perceive it more as percussion than as a tone.

    OK, do this, then report back to me here.
     
  11. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Can someone please explain exactly what the "Enhance" knob does. Seems that further to the right, the bigger the smiley face EQ curve? What happens when you go left?
     
  12. DaveB

    DaveB

    Mar 29, 2000
    Toronto Ontario
    The Enhance knob boosts the lows, low mids and treble simultaneously while it cuts the mids (as you move clockwise). The flat position is at far left ie: maximum midrange and minimum low,l-m,& treble.
     
  13. baba

    baba Supporting Member

    Jan 22, 2002
    3rd stone from the sun
    Huh? I thought the best signal and tone is achieved by turning up the gain as high as you can get it without the clip light coming on, and then increasing the volume with the master volume knob.
     
  14. boogiebass

    boogiebass

    Aug 16, 2000
    My experience with the WT800, for what it's worth, was that it was a great sounding preamp but the power amp just never seemed loud enough. I used to mono-bridge it into an 8 ohm D410XLT and was underwhelmed every time. I came to the conclusion, after owning several other Eden integrated amps, that the power amp is the weak link in their chain. Obviously, YMMV. Just a thought...
     
  15. DRN

    DRN

    Mar 17, 2002
    Las Vegas
    Munji, Great info, I will try this on Saturday. That is the next time I will be at the rehersal studio.

    I assume that since I am clipping the amp I am also hurting it as well. Is the limiter protecting it from spikes or am I killing it? Also if the 27.5 hz is going thru the eq section as well wouldn't the eq section also clip?

    As for the input signal I am only running an x-wire wireless and a DBX160A. The 160A is a a recent addition. The problem existed before the wireless and the 160A. I was trying the 160A to try to add punch and clarity. (not to over come poor technique like the long debate on another thread:D )

    I have eliminated the 8 ohm 215 as of last night. It is a very nice cab but just did not do it for me. (Do I hear cheers from Munji) The cab was very tight and not as floppy as I thought it would be. I may look for a 115 and a 410 XST but that is just a wish list. First I need to solve the problem at hand.

    Thanks for all the great responses.
     
  16. AMJBASS

    AMJBASS Supporting Member

    Jan 8, 2002
    Ontario, Canada
    Clipping won't harm the amp, but it could cause damage to the speakers. I find it hard to beleive that your rig could be running out of headroom though! When I had my WT-500 I couldn't turn up past 1/3 before it was painfully loud! Speaking of which, I regret selling that amp so much, I have to get another! The SWR is great, but it is not Eden!
     
  17. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Praise god, whatever you perceive it to be.
     
  18. Bluesbob

    Bluesbob

    Mar 13, 2000
    Springfield, TN
    My new WT-400 is supposed to be one of the stereo channels of the WT-800, right? I've used it 3 times so far, all in medium size clubs, with 2 guitars, (one with a Super Reverb, the other a Blues DeVille, both amps miked), and a fairly heavy-handed drummer. I go through my Goliath III (8 ohm), and I don't turn it up past noon. I would think that with 2 4X10 cabs and 800 watts, it should have miles of headroom and be dangerously loud. Maybe have it looked at.