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Eden WT800C vs Thunderfunk 750A vs Genz Benz 1200

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Rimo, Sep 30, 2008.


  1. Rimo

    Rimo

    Sep 28, 2008
    Australia
    Hi Everyone,

    I am new to TB and was told by a friend that this place is a great resource for info and experiences with all the gear I can think off.

    I'm hoping if people can give me some comparisons or impressions between the amps mentioned above.

    I have a Eden WT400 so I am pretty familiar with the Eden sound but I have heard that the WT800 in comparison is very different sonically to the WT400.

    Weight and cost is no issue here. What's important is that the amp can handle a 4 ohm 410 cab with a 8 ohm 210 cab i.e. 2.6 ohms.

    The cabs which I will be using are a Bergantino AE410 with a AE210. Bass is both 5 and 4 string jazz basses with single coil pickups.

    Tone, I generally go for is a quick, tight, full, punchy, but still articulate, favouring towards the bridge pickup 75% of the time. In saying that I still want an amp which is versatile enough for a lot of different styles of music.

    I can try all these amps out, but before I do I really wanted to hear from people who have had experiences with any of these amps driving the Berg AE cabs. Opinions and advice regarding other amps are also welcomed.

    Thanking you all in advance.
     
  2. OK, this is strange... I posted and it disappeared... but I found it with a search.

    Here it is again:

    Hello and welcome to Talkbass. The heads you are considering are all great in their own way, with the WT800 giving you more of what you like with the WT400 you are familiar with (they sound about the same to me), the iAmp800 being very wide, hi fi and clean, and the Genz giving you (unfortunately in a huge, heavy package) lot's of bells and whistles. I own the TF550b, and it's great for warm and fat. The 750 is also Killer from what I understand, but man, it's a lot of cash.

    I'll tell you what though, with the wonderful cabs you have (which I'm familiar with), I would HIGHLY recommend the new Mesa Boogie M6 Carbine (I know, stupid name). Assuming you want a punchy, clean but aggressive punchy tone, it's about the best hybrid 2 space head I've ever played, and is safe running at 2 or 2.67 ohms. It's about $1,000, and combines the wide, clean, but IMO a touch 'sterile and clinical' iAmp800 type tone with the punch and warmth of the EdenWT800. That Genz is just too damn big and bulky.

    If you are on more of a budget, the Carvin B1500 is KILLER three space, mega watt head for under $1,000.

    While I haven't heard the combination, I've tried the M6/Carbine, and I own and love the AE410. Every bone in my body says that's a wonderful combination, again, assuming you want a relatively bright and aggressive but clean voicing with a big, punchy low end. I'm a single coil J bass fanatic, and that is one heck of a rig for that!

    IMO (which in Talkbass lingo, means this is purely my opinion, based on the tone goals I have, which you can see from my profile).

    K
    __________________
     
  3. Eminor3rd

    Eminor3rd BLAAAAARRGGHH!!

    Feb 10, 2008
    NYC
    Welcome to TB.

    I haven't played the iAMP or the TF, but I can comment on the other two.

    Eden WT800: I agree with Ken, it sounds a lot like a WT400 to me. Even moreso than the WT550 that I own.

    GBE1200: I played this head through an uber610 in a store once, and I didn't like it at all. Here's why: It had excellent headroom, and thunderous lows, but the treble was very harsh, and I heard a strange lack of mids. It actually, to me, sounded like a biamped rig. It was punchy and articulate, indeed, but it had an awkward tonal character to my ears.

    Then again, it could have been the cab. I played a GBE750 on a jam gig once and thought it sounded relatively flat through an Avatar 410. Perhaps a low-mid bump, but that could probably be attributed to the cab.

    As Ken said, all IMO.
     
  4. Rimo

    Rimo

    Sep 28, 2008
    Australia
    Thanks guys for your input.

    I have to admit the dimensions of the GBE1200 is not favourable compared to the others.

    If I can pickup the WT800C for less than the Thunderfunk750 am I better off just going with the Eden 800 ?

    Would I be gaining much in terms of performance and tone with the Tfunk compared to the Eden takinging into account I am looking for that tight, punchy, full but clean tone ?

    I am also interested in exploring the Mesa M6. Is there any weight dimensions,and power specs available and where the heck can you get Mesa bass gear here in Sydney - does any aussies know ?
     

  5. Sorry... didn't realize you are in Sydney. I'm not sure the Mesa brand is available there. I tell you what, if you dig the tone of your WT400 and just need some more ooomph and power, it would be hard to go wrong with a WT800c. The TF750A would be awesome also, and the TF voicing is a good match with the AE line of cabs. The TF is a little tighter and a touch less wooly than the Eden voicing, but in a mix, close enough IMO and IME.

    Edit: The M6 is standard two space, about 24 pounds, and 600 BIG watts into 2 or 4 ohms (there is a switch for optimal 2ohm operation). It's a really different voicing for Mesa... more similar to Eden than to other Mesa's (which are quite tubey and warm), but with more mid punch and brightness and punch.
     
  6. I just checked the Mesa site, and they do have an Australian Distributor.

    Search Results

    Distributor Address
    Pro Audio Supplies 87-89 Gladstone Street Fyshwick A.C.T. 2609
    Contact Tel +61 (0)2 6249 7766
    Fax +61 (0)2 6247 5960
    Email sales@proaudio.com.au
     
  7. Rimo

    Rimo

    Sep 28, 2008
    Australia
    Thanks Ken, very helpful.

    The way I'm hearing you - the Tfunk may be more suited to the AE Berg cabs for that tight, full, but clean and punchy tone more so than the Eden ?

    I'm not really saying I want the Eden sound just with more oomph but, I want something which is going to compliment the AE Berg cabs well and get that tone I described with the least amount of fuss.

    Do you think the Mesa M6 is more capable of achieving that than Tfunk or Eden ?
     
  8. burk48237

    burk48237 Supporting Member

    Nov 22, 2004
    Oak Park, MI
    I am really anxious to try a Thunderfunk 750. I don't need any additional power, I would just like to know how it sounds. I've owned the Eden 550, and I've played thru a bunch of WT800's. The Thunderfunk 550 can keep up with the Eden 800 unless you absolutely have to 2 ohm operation. The GB didn't blow me away (I've played them twice at gigs) but to be fair I haven't heard one with a variety of different cabinets. I haven't heard the M6, I'm sure Ken will give me the chance soon.:D One other thing to remember when comparing, Thunderfunk is basically a small custom shop, and Mesa still builds everything in the US with a lot of hands on QC. Both have great service. GB, I'm not familiar with the point of Origin, they do have a great service rep, and Eden is moving more and more stuff off shore, also Eden has had some service issues since the takeover.
     

  9. With stuff as good as the TF, the WT and the Mesa, it really gets down to personal taste. I was pretty blown away by the Mesa this weekend.. simple, loud, moderately priced (at least in the US), and very, very tight and articulate.

    Tom Bowlus has gigged with the AE410/AE210 and Mesa M6 and raved about it. It is definitely worth a try if you can get your hands one one. I again have not heard the TF750a, but the 550b sounds VERY nice with the AE410 (I do own that combination). However, it's more warm and fat than the aggressive articulation I heard with the M6... with all that upper mid response that really results in that 'hearing the windings on the roundwound strings with single coil' sort of thing.

    I really don't think you can go wrong with any of the stuff you are considering. If the TF750a and WT800c are about the same price, I'd go with the TF in a heartbeat, for the reasons that Burk states (unless, per my previous post, you just love your WT400 but need more wump).

    K
     
  10. Bassist30

    Bassist30 Supporting Member

    Mar 19, 2004
    NEW YORK
    aaaahhhhhh The never ending search for the better sound.
    I like all the amps mentioned and would like to buy more but the inflated economy has put a cap on the gas.
     
  11. I haven't played the TF or the Mesa, but in comparrison to the WT800, the Genz 1200 & 750 were no match. Both just didn't seem to have the thump and full tone I get from the WT800.
    I didn't find the GB's could deliver the tone I was looking for.........not to say that it won't do it for you. I also wasn't sold on the sheer bulkiness of them either.
    If you can try out all of them this is going to be the best way to make up your mind. All have great qualities but if it comes down to price in the end, I'm not sure that buying a Mesa in OZ is going to work out the winner as these usually cost a bomb over here and despite being good quality amps, I can't quite understand the gap between them and a WT800 for quality and price.
    My WT800 has never left me wanting for more than what it delivers. It has always exceeded my expectations.
     
  12. Rimo

    Rimo

    Sep 28, 2008
    Australia
    GB, thanks for jumping in as well. Do you think the WT800 is going to give me that tight, full, punchy, but clear tone I'm after ?

    I've read that people find the Eden a little more "looser" "woolier" in the lows compared to the Tfunk 750 which seems more tighter, punchier and defined.

    I've also read that the Eden WT800 is tighter, punchier, and generally sonically different to the WT400. I've Does anyone know if that's true ?
     
  13. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    Weight and cost no issue? Glockenklang Heart-Rock. I believe it's 1,000 watts into 2.7 ohms. It is the definition of the tone you describe.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. Rimo

    Rimo

    Sep 28, 2008
    Australia
    Thanks Munji.

    Checked your profile and saw you also have the WT800.

    So how would you describe the difference between the Glockenklang and the WT800 sonically. I've read that the Glock can get pretty warm and thick almost tube like but still retain the quickness and punchiness of SS amps.

    It's funny because the dealer who sells the Bergantino cabs here in Sydeny has the Glockenklang Heart Rock as well and it didn't even click for me to ask or try it. It's also cheaper than the Eden WT800.
    Does any one else have any experiences or opinions on the Glockenklang Heart Rock. This could be another amp worth exploring. How would this one compare to the TFunk ?
     
  15. 12bass

    12bass

    Jan 2, 2003
    Victoria, Canada
    There shouldn't be much difference tonally between the WT400 and 800 as the circuitry inside is basically the same, except for the extra power amp and bridging ability....
     
  16. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    As clean as the Eden is, the Glockenklang is even cleaner. It does a great job of reproducing just what your bass is putting out, all the way across the frequency range. I've never pushed mine to where it got dirty, but their propaganda says it can do it. I'd give it a go if I were you. Try it with an HT322 if they have one. I'm surprised the Glock costs less than the Eden over there. I paid about $1,000 US more for the Glock than the Eden. Seriously.
     
  17. Munjibunga

    Munjibunga Total Hyper-Elite Member Gold Supporting Member

    May 6, 2000
    San Diego (when not at Groom Lake)
    Independent Contractor to Bass San Diego
    I tend to agree. They sound very similar as long as you're running the WT-800 bridged mono. Once you go to stereo or bi-amped, other factors can affect the tone.
     
  18. Rimo

    Rimo

    Sep 28, 2008
    Australia
    Thanks Munji.

    I wanna try it with my AE410 / AE210 combination.

    You said the Glock Heart Rock is even cleaner than the Eden, but can you make the notes sound full and punchy like you can with the Eden ?

    Yeah, it's funny the price of the Heart Rock is less than the WT800 and Thunderfunk. However, Bass Gear Direct here in Sydney is known for doing some great deals on high-end gear.
     
  19. I had a HeartRock for a while. It's a beautifully built, if large and heavy head. The volume will be about the same as the other heads you are considering.

    It has a unique tone that I just couldn't come to terms with, so I eventually sold mine. It is warm and fat down low, and very hi fi up top. It's a unique combination of fat, deep, warm lows, with a very 'Glock' voiced, clear hi fi, upper treble.

    I don't hear this head as any more 'transparent' than any of the others you are considering. Like the Eden and TF, it has its own tone. I really like a bit of mid punch and a little bit of that grindy burp that single coils are known for, and IMO the Glock kind of sucked that particular tone out of my J style basses. However, the very upper mid present and punchy AE cabs would probably help and be a pretty nice match for the Glock HR.

    If I was playing a Fodera in dual coil mode, the Glock would have probably worked better for me.

    Nice head though, and worth a listen if you can try it.
     
  20. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    Based upon the OP's goals, and the particular cabs he is driving, I'm going to join Ken in casting my lot in favor of the Mesa/Boogie M6 Carbine. This is a truly great head in its own right, and it pairs up extremely well with the AE410/AE210, IME/IMHO.

    As to the Heart-Rock, I actually bought Ken's old one, and then later on sold it. A fine amp, for sure, but I had a hard time dialing in 'my tone' (it did not sound super 'flat' to my ears), and I also own a Glockenklang Heart-Core (now discontinued), which just worked/sounded better to me, overall.

    Tom.
     

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