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Effects Jaco used on "Black Market"

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by Da_Niet, Jan 23, 2003.


  1. Da_Niet

    Da_Niet

    Jan 23, 2003
    California
    I realize there are newer, more slicker musical productions of good bass players out there, but I am really stuck on Jaco Pastorius and all that he did. I love his solo work as well as his early Weather Report recordings. Does anyone know what type of effects he used on the song, "Black Market" as well as the song which starts out with the train whistling by(can't recall the name)? Much appreciated, and, by the way, please forgive if this has already been posted.......I am new.:D
    Danke Schön
     
  2. Alphonso Johnson played on "Black Market," and Jaco played on "Barbary Coast" (the train whistle song). "Barbary Coast" sounds like it is completely dry. Johnson has told me that on that album, he went through so many effects pedals and combinations thereof that he simply lost track along the way.
     
  3. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    Johnson has told you? You've met him?
     
  4. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    He has his own forum on the net - I've asked him questions there and he is very good about answering!

    So - in effect he has "told" me things as well!!
     
  5. moley

    moley

    Sep 5, 2002
    Hampshire, UK
    Wow. I didn't realise he had his own forum. Well, Paul should see if he can get him to do an Ask A Pro forum on TB! :)
     
  6. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Jaco did play "Black Market" with WR on the "08:30" album and obviously, hundreds of times, live!!

    But acknowledging that, wouldn't have given so much opportunity for feeling "smug" about putting people right, eh? :rolleyes:
     
  7. JimK

    JimK

    Dec 12, 1999
    You mean you haven't?
    In '99, Oteil Burbridge gloriously returned to this area for a clinic; he brought along fellow ARU-er Jimmy Herring...who brought along Alphonso(Jazz Is Dead was playing in-town).

    AJ is very, very cool...he has not aged one iota since the '70s, either! Un-friggin'-believable.
    Way early in the annals of TB, I mentioned AJ's "strange" plucking hand technique...from what Bruce sez, it sounds similar to his own technique.
    Johnson said he did it on account of studio work...this "muting" style gave the engineers a clean bass track(devoid of extraneous noiz).
    And do check out AJ's website.

    Oh yeah, the drummer for this clinic is the guy I'm playing with now...whadda let down, eh?
     
  8. Da_Niet

    Da_Niet

    Jan 23, 2003
    California
    Wow! And I thought I knew Jaco's style. Hahaha! I am impressed and would like to hear more of Alphonso Johnson. Was(is) he a fretted bass player?
     
  9. probably better in "effects"...
     
  10. adrian garcia

    adrian garcia

    Apr 9, 2001
    las vegas. nevada
    Endorsing Artist: Nordy Basses, Schroeder Cabs, Gallien Krueger Amps
    Alphonso Johnson was fond of Morley pedals.. he used a Morley Wah and Distortion. and his fingers on a fretless Charles LoBoue ( sp?) bass had a lot to do with his sound as well- and yes, maybe he's writtehn you , but do you have one of these??!!!:D :D
    [​IMG]
     
  11. jerry

    jerry Doesn't know BDO Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 13, 1999
    Hawaii
    Alphonso always used a ton of effects.....I think I remember him saying on his web-page he uses the boss GT6B now.
     
  12. temp5897

    temp5897 Guest

    Hmm I dunno...I love Jaco's stuff but I would disagree that he is the "best." I just don't think you can quantify that. And I don't think he quickly learned either. He spent years obsessively playing and growing. He claimed it was one year to get his stuff together but considering how far I have come in a few months I don't doubt for a second anyone can get to jaco heights in one year if all they do is practice like I am sure he did.
     
  13. adrian garcia

    adrian garcia

    Apr 9, 2001
    las vegas. nevada
    Endorsing Artist: Nordy Basses, Schroeder Cabs, Gallien Krueger Amps
    what Jaco has was not only about practice- it was about HEART- it was about SOUL, it was about him speaking to us - it was a gift- i have yet to hear his lyriscm in ANYONES playing... you cant practice that , bro. I am 44 - been playing since i was 14, i mean, pretty much all the time, for a living- i could live 3 lifetimes and not touch what Jaco touched-- im by no means implying that you can't....
     
  14. temp5897

    temp5897 Guest

    Hey I am not saying I can either! Honestly I wouldn't want to be another Jaco. I want to be the first me. I see too many guys trying to do this or that when its already been done perfectly by someone else! You know what I'm saying?

    While obviously I love Jaco's playing, I just wouldn't say he is the "best." I wouldn't say that about anyone. I do think anyone given the practice can play whatever they want. Maybe I am just stupidly optimistic...

    I think a lot of Jaco's "feeling" or "lyricism" comes from the fact he doesn't play the bass like it's only a bass. I can name many musicians that I consider much much more "lyrical" than Jaco on their instrument. For example Danny Embry. I can tell you I could play Jaco's lines on a sax and no one would care. I mean sure people might say "hey that guy is good" but I doubt anyone would EVER say "That Jared Morante is the BEST SAX PLAYER EVER" which is what a lot of people say about Jaco. When I saw Vic Wooten with Mike Stern the first solo he took was standard stuff. It was all fingerstyle that would get zero attention if it was not played on a bass. If it was done on guitar or a horn of some sort...people just would not care. However people just ate it up! Except for me. I said to my girlfriend nearly the exact words I stated above, "you know if someone did this on guitar no one would care." She just said "yup." I think a lot of people get too into the habit of viewing certain instruments in a narrow fashion and their approach then becomes limited.

    I dunno..maybe because I wasn't exactly born when Jaco first hit the scene that I am not fully aware of how different he was. I personally think his song writing is better than his playing but again I am sure that can be highly controversial among some people. :D I mean I hear teen town and think that it is just a cool sounding song. But I will tell you I have only been playing since last august and nearly nailed it in just a few sittings. I never got it down perfect, but this was just a few nights where I tried it for maybe 20 minutes a night. I probably won't try it anymore because I'd rather move on and do my own thing. I just wanted to see if I could do it.

    When I first heard Jaco I really wasn't that impressed. This was before I took up bass and was only a sax player. It was like "big deal!" to me ya know? He sounded like I or anyone other horn player might sound on their instrument (referring to donna lee). I didn't really realize that this was an accomplishment on the bass at the time (this was probably 3 years ago or so) so that type of playing to me only seems natural. It wasn't until I really got into bass that I realized just how good he really was. However, I know I can do it on bass if I tried...I honestly don't get to play much with me trying to finish up school and such but when I graduate watch out. :D I can already outplay my dad and he has been playing for 30 years while I have been playing for 6 months. I don't want to sound like I am trying to brag. I will acknowledge the fact that *I* don't consider my self that good I am just REALLY excited about graduating and getting to practice every night for at least an hour or two. I usually get in five minutes a day if even that.

    So what was my point? Oh yeah...I think if more bass players didn't just approach the bass as a background instrument that can only lay a groove we would have many more "jaco types" i.e. people with a distinct voice.

    Also if people's heart and soul aren't in their playing why are they playing? I dunno I just think everyone should play with their full being. I'd play every day for free to anyone who wants to listen just because...I have to.

    I hope no one takes what I said the wrong way, I am in no way saying I think I am better than anyone else or that other people are bad. I just think if more people approached the bass differently we would see good things.

    Adrian I just realized you are not a supporting member. Shame on you! :D ;)
     
  15. adrian garcia

    adrian garcia

    Apr 9, 2001
    las vegas. nevada
    Endorsing Artist: Nordy Basses, Schroeder Cabs, Gallien Krueger Amps
    check again! i just expired a couple of weeks ago and re registered..!!!;) Paul hasnt processed it yet.
    I hear you, Jared- and you have every right to your views and opinions, no doubt... man, you nailed teen town 6 months after you started playing??- i myself am not big on learning the "bass anthems" note for note, but i did work out teen town a while back and that riff of the third bar of the head still makes me tremble.. God bless you if you have that kind of natural ability- and im not being sarcastic- i mean it!! heck, God bless you anyway!!:D
     
  16. jerry

    jerry Doesn't know BDO Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 13, 1999
    Hawaii
    I usually get in trouble here.......but anyway:D One of the things people underestimate in Jaco's playing was his total mastery of theory & harmony!
    It's one of the reasons that he was such a great writer.....some people question that, but wait twenty years........Jaco's writing will be studied, just like Monk/ Mingus/ Ornette Coleman etc. is today!
     
  17. temp5897

    temp5897 Guest

    Well like I said I didn't "nail" it but came close enough to be proud of myself. And yeah I know exactly what youre talking about i.e. the riff :D

    Yeah I THOUGHT you were a supporting member but was confused why you weren't. Now I remember that you had the logo from access bass as your avatar.

    I really hope no one takes my last post the wrong way...I was really apprehensive about posting it in its current form because I don't want people to think of me as some egotistical punk....
     
  18. hieronymous

    hieronymous

    Nov 28, 2002
    Northern CA
    A great album with Alphonso Johnson's playing is "Open Your Eyes You Can Fly" by Flora Purim. On the title track and the cover of the Return to Forever tune (can't think of the name right now - maybe "Some Time Ago"?) he does some amazing bass playing, with some crazy effects stuff too. Sounds like envelope filter/synth stuff if I remember correctly, nice 'n' thick. I think the album was recorded in 1976, so the bass sound is wonderful - I'm pretty sure he plays fretless on almost all of it.

    Sorry I don't have exact info - I had a vinyl copy, no longer in my posession. Definitely worth tracking down - I'm pretty sure it's been released on CD. (Another great album is Airto Moreira's "Seeds on the Ground" with Ron Carter on bass) . . .
     
  19. adrian garcia

    adrian garcia

    Apr 9, 2001
    las vegas. nevada
    Endorsing Artist: Nordy Basses, Schroeder Cabs, Gallien Krueger Amps
    Alphonso smoked on Open Your Eyes- i also have that vinyl- i must dig it up- and on the Airto stuff- i recently redid a tune of Airto's called Tombo in 7/4 that i will post on my site soon-- i love the brazilian stuff-
    he was also smoking on the Billy Cobman / George Duke stuff-
    i first found him when he was bring called "Slim" by George
     
  20. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    I think that anyone interested in this debate, should get the Weather Report "Live and Unreleased" album - which has 3 of their electric bassists to compare, side by side.

    I always liked all of their studio albums up to "Night Passage" and it never occurred to me to think who was the "best" bassist. But listening to the live album, Jaco's lines really stand out and are way better - each track where he is on, the bass line has something to recommend it and really grab your ears.

    It just re-affirmed for me how great Jaco was in this context and why he made such a big impact on bassists in the late 70s/early 80s!!