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Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by ROCKBOBMEL_old, Jun 11, 2001.
Has anyone got any pics of this moster? I have only heard of them, never heard one or seen one.
Whoo-hoo! (finally) found some pics! They were hi-fi speakers.
Electro-Voice used them in a line called "Patrician". About the
size of a nice armoire
"...The cone was made out of cast styrofoam. Prototype
units had paper cones which were too heavy to support,
so styrofoam was used. EV recommended rotating the driver
180 degrees every year or so due to possible "cone sagging".
The driver weighed 34 lbs and had a 4" voice coil and 9 lb.
ceramic magnet. This drivers cone had the surface area of
five 12" woofers...."
Here's one in a minimalist cab next to a cab with a 12"
woof-woof, and a shot of the raw driver...
(if the pics don't load, click hyah)
That looks like.... a very bad idea. How could one possibly see commercial potential in THAT!?
I wonder what the efficiency is. 80 dB?
IIRC I saw one in the late 70's in a hifi store. I think the idea was similar to a Marshall that goes to 11.
Someone would be "adventurous" enough to buy them...probably mount it in a car.
Looks like the junk hifi-audio nerds would buy.
If it's speaker size you're after, you can get the same size with multiple speakers, e.g. two 4x10s, and you get a better sound and power handling along with it. It's the COMBINED speaker size that matters, so you can replace a single large speaker with multiple smaller ones. Perhaps Joris or somebody else is able to explain the physics involved.
No, it isn't the same. The mathematics to explain this gets quite difficult. (I could give you some references to audio engineering papers and acoustics books, if you are interested.) If what you said were true, then it would be most cost effective for a manufacturer to build only 4" drivers, and cabinet makers would simply decide how many of them to install to get the sound they wanted. There is definitely an acoustical difference between one large radiator and multiple small ones. However, there are advantages to using the latter configuration when one wants decent higher-frequency coverage (i.e., a faster, "punchier" response). A 30" woofer, if well-designed and placed in an appropriate (read HUGE) cabinet or baffle, would probably do wonders for signals in the 15-40 Hz. range.
Ok, but for bass guitar application it's still the better choice. 4x10 is still the most popular cab concept after all.
You don't need super low end, especially on stage.
The sound guy would kill you. And you won't get a better sound for yourself.
Most poweramps are designed to shut of anything below 20 Hz anyway.
And if you want to feel the sound pressure, THEN multiple speakers will do the same thing at the same volume.
"better" and "most popular" sometimes have nothing to do with each other...especially in this case
Could you explain?
This is debatable. I have my doubts. 4x10s certainly have merit for many applications, but there are lots of other configurations out there that people are quite happy with.
I don't believe any of this is necessarily true in all situations. It depends a LOT on your personal preference, the acoustics of the stage, the acoustics of the room, etc.
This comment fits exactly with your previous one, with which I respectfully disagree. It depends on the quality of sound you're after. There is a preponderance of physics and acoustical theory that show that (while we're generalizing) larger diaphragm speakers typically achieve better low end than their smaller counterparts - even in multiples. If deep bass isn't your bag, there's nothing wrong with that. You can certainly do a lot with smaller speakers. However, some people want much more fundamental bass from their rigs, and it is certainly their choice. In this case, larger radiators usually outperform smaller ones for the lowest frequencies.
Most Popular 410
Better 2-12, 2-15 , a 30" designed for bass guitar, a square driver, the fabled monkey-drive woofer, etc.
Most Popular Fender Squier
Better Too easy
Most Popular Britney Spears
Better Too easy
Most Popular McDonalds
Better Okay, it really is great food
Most Popular Talkbass
Sometimes it is true...but not always
Thanks for the pics and comments.
The 30" speaker looks fragile.
I'll bet you could make one with todays standards (dual spiders + cast frame, kevlar cone, 6" voice coil). I think the old speakers were made with low power amps in mind, but today we would just use a 2,000W amp. No Problem.
Hey Psycho, good to hear from you.
How do think it'd fare in a 10-hz test?
what exactly is a 10hz test????
I don't want to start the old hackneyed alt.guitar.bass-style 10" vs. 15" debate (the last thing we need is for Peter Duncan and Rich Koerner to come here and start duking it out), but I think it ultimately boils down to the tone you want. I've been to a show where a guy with a single Hartke 2.5XL--not exactly a cab known for massive low end--has shaken the house and delivered gut-blasting punch 30 feet back, because he put the cabinet on the floor.
Most of the shows I go to are DIY small club, house/frat party, etc. affairs, and IMO the whole argument that you need 15s if you aren't going through the PA isn't all that convincing. EQ, stage volume, playing style, and amp headroom are going to be more effective at determining your tone than speaker size. Not everybody wants to have their scrotum vibrated by bass like one would in the first three rows at a '70s arena rock show.
here's a real rig for all you 10" speaker, treble boosting, Foster tweeter blowing, light gauge roundwound stringed, guitarbass played with a thin pick, wish you could play 1/2 notes evenly girlymahns.
what is this speaker? it's not that 30" ev, it looks bigger, especially considering that's an 18" perched on top of it.
If that's an 18" perched on top, then the guy standing behind (!) it has a 48" wide A$$.
My father owned an EV Patrician decades ago. That 30" woofer would go L-O-W, given the times (but I was but a pup, and easily impressed). I remember reading that one entrepeneur of the times was marketing a service whereby he would dig a 10' deep hole outside the walls of your listening room, form a massive concrete 'horn' that rose from the hole and turned 90 degrees to enter the new hole he'd placed in your wall. The 30" woof-woof was attached to the other end, then the whole mess was backfilled. I'm serious.
that guy IS pretty big..
ok..maybe it's a 12..
but i wonder..did the contracter ever actually build one of those bass bunkers? I want one..oh dear, seeing how it's father's day and all..I was just wondering...
what a cool idea for a reggae club.
So T..you used to have a B-18? still have it?
No, I sold it longgggg ago. Too bad, too. I miss it. But I have to say, it sounded pretty bad. It was all I had at the time and I never got used to having just an 18". It was boomy and muddy. The Ampeg tube amp had a really low damping factor (~30) and that big ol' cone would just flop around. Still......
I have an Ampeg V-4 that just had a cap job done. The tone is greatm but it is not as tight as my Bassman 135. Don't matter if it is a 2-10, 1-15, 2-15, or 1-18.