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Eminence Patriot and Red Coat speaker series

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by protoz, Apr 10, 2005.


  1. protoz

    protoz

    Nov 30, 2000
    Iowa
    I've been looking at the idea or replacing my speakers in my Avatar 410 Delta with some of these speakers.

    Patriot:
    The Copperhead - 75w
    Ragin Cajun - 75w
    Delta Demon - 100w

    Red Coats:
    Ramrod - 75w

    Any of those would give me much more head room so I don't start farting out before I get to half volume.

    I can't get the cab to really sing with my Hartke 5000 or Sunn Coliseum 300 since each speaker handles 300w each...

    I read that the Delta series isn't really that good for bass anyhow and can't handle the low end very well which I am starting to notice more and more as I gig with it and play at high levels. I never noticed this before but I was only playing bass for a little over a year when I bought it and never really knew a whole lot.

    Has anyone tried these speakers? I can't figure out WinISD to save my life to check this myself so if someone can help me out I would really appreciate it.
     
  2. kringle77

    kringle77 Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2004
    Massena NY
    I use a pair of delta 2x10 cabs live and they can be very loud. You just have to have enough power to push them. People just don't seem to get that. I've played 200 watt cabs out live being pushed by a 2400 watt power amp and they just crushed. My rule is generally this: use an amp that is rated for twice as much power as your cabs are rated for. This works. The only exception for me is that right now I am running a pair of 700 watt delta 2x10 cabs with an Aguilar AG500 head. It's only 500 watts but I feel that the company has underated this number. It is loud.
     
  3. Justice

    Justice

    May 24, 2002
    Houston TX.
    I have a friend here that plays a hartke 5000 through a Avatar 4x10 with Deltas (the older ones) and it sounds great and he has headroom out the wazoo!

    IIRC, you can bridge the output of the HA5000, thats what he does.
     
  4. Keep a fire extinguisher handy cause those are guitar speakers.
     
  5. The Clap

    The Clap

    Jan 5, 2004
    Scottsdale, AZ
    It seems you've misunderstood something about speaker specs. The patriot and redcoat speakers will NOT work well with a full-range bass signal. The cones are not made to move as far in and out, and your speakers will 'fart out' at much lower volumes. The deltas have pretty short excursion limits themselves, but the guitar speakers you're talking about have <1mm Xmax.

    A 300W driver means that it CAN take 300W of continuous power and deal with the heat that that generates. It does NOT mean that you need 300W to drive it, or even 100. A speaker's power rating tells you the cabs ability to handle power, not how much it'll need to sound good.
     
  6. protoz

    protoz

    Nov 30, 2000
    Iowa
    whoops, thanks for the heads up on those being guitar only.

    I do run my Hartke 5000 in bridged mode so I'm getting 370w @ 8Ohm but they still seem to fart out if I go full out pickups and half volume. I just figured I wasn't pushing enough power into them and it made it fart out. Hence going for lower watt speakers.

    Ah well I might just have to figure out another way around it

    Edit: Do the Pro series have a higher excursion limit?
     
  7. BurningSkies

    BurningSkies CRAZY BALDHEAD

    Feb 20, 2005
    Seweracuse, NY
    Are you EQing a ton of low lows into the cab? That may be the source of your problem rather than the the headroom issues. My SB112 got to the T.O.F without pushing the volume too far, then I rolled back the lows a touch and it was fine...and I could hear myself better. I still use a lot of low end since I play in a reggae band.
     
  8. It depends on how the cab is tuned. If it's tuned for 50hz, for example, changing to drivers with better bottom end isn't going to help much because you're fightng the cab.
     
  9. protoz

    protoz

    Nov 30, 2000
    Iowa
    Yea Avatars are tuned to 50hz I think. At least thats what I got from here and an e-mail from Dave whom wasn't sure but he said it was around that mark.

    I'll try turning down my bass in my eq a bit and see how that goes I got comments on my bass was sounding a little thin (on a recording where everything was a bit thin) so I pumped them up to a Geezer Butler style sound that sounds great at medium volumes but much higher and it can fart out.

    Thanks for all the help guys and preventing me from lighting my cab on fire with guitar 10s :ninja:
     
  10. That doesn't surprise me. Avatar doesn't make the cabs. They buy blanks from a supplier and put in a driver that comes close and doesn't cost too much. Has anyone else noticed that Avatar 4x10, 2x12 and 1x15 cabs are all the same size? The only diff is the speaker baffle.
     
  11. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    The cabinet sizes being the same is fine so long as the boxes are properly tuned to the drivers inside. As to the correct frequency to tune a box to that depends on many factors, and a blanket statement that 50 Hz or any other frequency is the correct frequency to tune a bass cab to is erroneous.
     
  12. Who made a blanket statement that 50 Hz is the correct tuning frequency? I missed it somewhere.
     
  13. protoz

    protoz

    Nov 30, 2000
    Iowa
    I read it in another Avatar thread that it was around that area. I could have been mistaken though.
     
  14. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    from what i know, these new Eminence speakers are actually for guitar.

    FWIW, i dont think they'd fare well with bass amp needs.