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Epi 410UL vs Schroeder 410

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Bigwan, Aug 1, 2005.

  1. Bigwan


    Feb 22, 2002
    Ballymena (hey)
    Well I've narrowed my cab search down to these 2 - which are similarly priced here in europe (Epi is actually slightly cheaper!). Both cabs have pros and cons, most obviously the weight difference, but either way I'll be cutting my rig weight in half at the very least.

    I'll initially be driving the winning cab with an Ashdown ABM500, but may add more power in the near future (probably about 1500-2000watts). I'll be competing with 2 marshall half stacks and a fairly loud drummer playing 4 string drop-D tuned heavy rock. Fingerstyle only. I like a nice punchy rock tone with a little grit (similar to Dirk Lance's tone) and I want a single cab solution.

    I had considered going the flat route with an El Whappo but I realised, much as I might think differently at times, every bass tone I've ever envied has been coloured! Also it is prohibitively expensive here in the UK.

    I'll not be able to try out either cab before ordering (something most of us euro-TBers don't have the luxury of) so I need some experienced views from you guys. Has anybody owned or played both these cabs?
  2. how about something european made, I'm thinking markbass, ebs, glockenklang(bit hifi-ish though, isn't it)or orange.
    It'd save you a LOT on shipping
  3. popinfresh


    Dec 23, 2004
    Melbourne, Aus
    If you want punchy, gritty, similar to Lance, IMO go the Schroeder. It's the kinda sound i'm after and my Schroe 410 can get it done. It's got that agressive edge to it and I have no trouble being heard in the band setting.
  4. KJung

    KJung Supporting Member

    Hello. I'm close to having your comparison cabs... I have the Epi410UL and the 1210. Both wonderful cabs but quite different sounding (I'm assuming that the 1210 and 410 have similar tone, etc.)

    The 410UL is very, very light.... lighter than you even think it is. It's a pleasure to haul around, it's very efficient (i.e., loud without a ton of watts), and is available in 4 or 8ohm versions. It's very articulate, and works very well with both modern sounding basses (i.e., MTD) and more traditional sounding basses.

    However, from your description of the loud guitarists, etc. in your post, the Schroeder stuff is really loud and punchy (also efficient... loud without a ton of watts) and the 1210 (and I assume 410) have a real lower mid growl to them. The 410 (as far as I know) only comes in a 4ohm version, so if you are thinking about bridging a stereo power amp into it later on, that might be a problem, since a lot of those amps like to see an 8ohm load when bridged. They are heavy.... my 1210 and 410UL aren't that different in weight... the Schroeder 410 will be much heavier.

    Again, both great cabs. Even though they have different sonic footprints, I like the UL and Schroeder lines a lot, and can get each within throwing distance of each other tone-wise in a live setting with EQ, etc.

    If you are a more traditional rock-oriented player that likes a lot of mid punch and a little growl to your sound (it sounds like that's the case from your post)... and need a REALLY loud, small cab.... the Schroeder 410 might be the way to go. If you are more of a pop player that likes an extremely quick, articulate sound with plenty of treble response, the 410UL might be the better choice (it gets plenty loud also!).
  5. Bigwan


    Feb 22, 2002
    Ballymena (hey)
    I can get the Schroeder and epi cabs for just a little more than the cabs you've mentioned. I had considered the EBS 4x10 cab but it is just sligtly too heavy for a comfortable one person carry. Markbass is good, but for a bit more money I can have an epi! Glock would be too hi-fi for what I'm after.
  6. Bigwan


    Feb 22, 2002
    Ballymena (hey)
    Hi KJung

    Your comments are pretty much what I'd figured. The Schroeder is 10Kgs heavier than the Epi (22 pounds I think), but to be honest the weight isn't really too much of a concern for me at this point.

    The aggresive sound that people describe with the Schroeder 410 is really what I'm after and I suppose it's the name and reputation that still has the Epi in the race! If I can eq the Epi to be aggressive like the Schroeder then it'll be the cab for me (wins on all counts then - light, loud, cutting and cheaper than the schroeder), although I still have a few reservations about going for a neo cab.
  7. KJung

    KJung Supporting Member

    I've found no negatives to the Neo thing at all... I've been pounding mine at high volumes for well over a year now. However, it sounds like the Schro410 would be the perfect cab for you given your sound requirements, etc.
  8. el_Kabong


    Jul 11, 2005
    Not to hijack the thread or anything, but do you have an opinion of the Schroeder compared with Ampeg 410s Pop? I'm always after the low mids growl, but I seem to imagine something a little smoother, tighter and growlier than my svt410hlf. I'm not a rock player but I don't like a 'polite' tone. Maybe I'm just dreaming?
  9. popinfresh


    Dec 23, 2004
    Melbourne, Aus
    Well, to be honest. I played through a 'peg 410 on the weekend and got nothing but but. It was that classic scooped muddy ampeg tone with that clanky top end to it. Now, I was using it with a SVT 3Pro and I do like some peg cabs with different heads, but that's what i experienced.

    Then I brought my Schroeder + V8 rig in for the second gig in the same spot on the same day. Tight, aggressive if I wanted it to be, clear, cutting, punchy, deep, growly, crisp but not harsh top end. Volume in truck loads (I had master maxed and gain almost constantly clipping with the ampeg, I had the master on 3 and gain on 5 with the Trace, we were louder second time around too).

    Thar you go. Just my experience.
  10. inazone


    Apr 20, 2003
    I play in a loud rock band, I have a 410ul and have played the schroeder cabs.
    Jmo, but to me I didnt like the tone of the scho cabs and they all had the same vibe except the 310212(I liked that cab). The scho cabs have a mid tone that I just dont like for my tastes. With that said, Im not sure the epi 410ul will be loud enough. It works fine for about half of my shows but I like to have a epi 212 under it for a bigger low end. More of a feal thing if that makes sence. Another cab to look at for heavy rock is the aguilar 412. It lacks a bit in the top end, but its not really missed in the mix.
  11. farboozle


    Apr 18, 2000
    Fairfax VA
    Let's petition Jorg to start making ultralight versions of his cabs. . . .

    I haven't played through an Epi 410ul, but I used to own an 410NYC. Now I play through a Schroder 410. From your description, I'd heavily recommend the Schroder.
  12. KJung

    KJung Supporting Member

    +1 :hyper: :hyper: :hyper: I'd buy a Schroeder410 (or two!) in two seconds it there was a lighter weight Neo version!
  13. jokerjkny


    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PHL
    truth be told,

    with the 2 half stacks you'd be competing against, i highly doubt a single 4x10 cab solution would work. IME, one 4x12 guitar cab = one 4x10 bass cab.

    are your guitarists crankin'? do they have volume wars btwn each other, and leave you battle the both of them?

    if so, i'd go for at least, 2 cabs. or a larger single cab. that said, and to keep the weight down, i'd go Epifani UL series. maybe a UL610?

    and good observation about your coloured cabs affinity. some guys get all hyped up about the "flat" thing cause of this board, only to be sorely disappointed.
  14. KJung

    KJung Supporting Member

    Never even thought about the 610UL. Whoohooo :hyper: :bassist: :hyper:
  15. Bigwan


    Feb 22, 2002
    Ballymena (hey)
    By my calculations, IF Jorg was to release a Neo 4x10 it'd weigh 27Kgs/60lbs. The 21012 would be 24Kgs/53lbs. That's just taking the weight of Eminence's closest offerings to Jorg's drivers and replacing them with the weight of Eminence's Neo offerings so it's probably not that close, but it's ballpark. Go on Jorg - we'd all love you forever!!!

    Joker, our guitarists are a bit weird - I can't even get them talked into boost patches on their effects for soloing, so no they're not cranking. Also their stacks are solid state so they don't "sound" as loud as valve amps. Also, I've no immediate plans of getting shot of my current cabs so I could always augment the 410 if I was really struggling, but I'd rather not - my car isn't big enough to carry more than 2 cabs (it's a Ford Ka - all you American dudes would have a good laugh at it. You know that bit in the Dragnet film where Tom Hanks and Dan Akroyd have wrecked all standard issue police cars that they're given and are handed a Yugo... the Ka is smaller! But it does 48 miles to the gallon!).
  16. CrackBass


    Aug 10, 2004
    neo shroeders? that would really suck! i would have to shell out another $900.00 for the neo 21012. then i would just want to carry both to gigs, so instead of saving me wieght it would just add ~55lbs to my rig.

    it would be really cool though he he he. i bet Jorg has experimented with neos, but we shall see if he can make them economically and sonically feasible.

    the stock schroeders are already very compact and light, though. 74lbs for a single cab solution. i'm lovin' it every time i load up. i have been gigging with it for almost a year now and i never have a problem competing with 100 tube watts of guitar.
  17. lo-freq

    lo-freq aka UFO

    Jan 19, 2003
    DFW, Texas
    The rock band I was previously in fit this description ('cept they were 100W Marshall and 120W Blue Voodoo both w/4x12 cabs and our drummers nickname was Maniac) and I could make everyone in the band beg me to turn down anytime I wanted in any venue we played including outdoor gigs (and that's clean, solid sound).
    [See my signature.]
  18. popinfresh


    Dec 23, 2004
    Melbourne, Aus
    Meh, tone would be different and maybe a design change needed for neo's. I think Jorg said he's not really interested in making neo's one time, but don't quote me on that!

    IMO, a Schroeder 410 will keep up fine, and then some. OK, so I have a V8, and it's loud, BUT i'm up against either 6 or 8 guitar 12's plus drums all the time and I havn't had the volume on my V8 above 3 on the master, 5 - 8 on the gain. And that was for LOUD gigs. I kept up easily, not pushing it at all and with tonnes of room to spend. AND everyone could here me, including me on the opposite side of the stage.