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Epi UL110/UL112 Stack vs. Schroeder 1210L

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by CH Design, Feb 19, 2008.


  1. CH Design

    CH Design Supporting Member

    Apr 25, 2007
    Ottawa, ON
    Has anyone out there ever sat down and compared these cabinets? I've heard great things about the Epi UL110/UL112 stack and I was wondering how the 1210L compared since they seem to be pretty close in terms of specs on the web, but the Schroeder is a more compact enclosure. If it sounds as good as the Epi stack, it would make a great mini-rig.
     
  2. B String

    B String Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    I'm very interested in this thread. I have a feeling the
    UL112/UL110 stack might have a wider voicing than the
    1210L, but not as loud. I'd like to hear from someone who's
    tried both too.
     
  3. CH Design

    CH Design Supporting Member

    Apr 25, 2007
    Ottawa, ON
    I had asked Dave at Ultimate Basses to do a comparison for me between an Epi UL310 S2 (my current cab) and the Schroeder 1210L. Here are his unedited comments ....

    "My A/B to compare low end revealed a few interesting things. Using the same amp and bass settings, I found the 1210L to have more low end than the UL310. I will attribute this to the Schroeder's 12" speaker. We are not really comparing apples to apples here since the Epifani has 10" drivers. Secondly, I would even go as far as to say the 1210L has a slight edge in sound projection. The Schroeder has a 4 Ohm rating vs the Epifani's 5.3 Ohm rating. The 1210L is more efficient but the UL310 has three drivers. It's really close and you'd probably have a 50/50 split among bass players on this one."

    This is why got me thinking about a more direct comparison. If the 1210L sounds as good as a UL110/UL112 stack, I would seriously consider moving my UL310 for a 1210L (or a 1212L). Based on some feedback I got before getting the UL310, I was under the impression that the UL310 sounded better than the UL110/UL112 stack.
     
  4. B String

    B String Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    I believe the UL310 does sound better. It also sounds
    different. The UL310 can get much louder than the UL112/
    UL110 stack, with a more even, punchy sound. The UL310
    takes eq very well too. You can get all the lowend out of the
    UL310 that you can get from the stack. I own and like both
    of these options. I'd still like to know about the Shro 1210L
    against the UL112/UL110 stack.
     
  5. CH Design

    CH Design Supporting Member

    Apr 25, 2007
    Ottawa, ON
    There can't only be 2 people in all of TB that are wondering about this comparison.
     
  6. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    We have all these cabs in the store I work for, I'd agree with this assessment.
     
  7. CH Design

    CH Design Supporting Member

    Apr 25, 2007
    Ottawa, ON
    Petebass, can you explain the differences a little better? Does "wider voicing" mean that the 1210L doesn't get all the lows and highs that the UL110/UL112 does?
     
  8. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    Kind of. To my ears the difference is more in the low mids and mids, in which the Schroeder definitely has more. For all I know they might measure the same -3dB point in the lows, but because of the Schroeder pronounced low-mid voicing, it's hard to tell which has more lows,

    The Schro is definitely loud. The 1210 in our store is the non-neo variety and in terms of efficiency, it's as loud as the epi 410 when fed the exact same signal. They sound nothing alike, but it's just as loud.

    Generally speaking the Epi's try to voice their cabinets to be more "true", so what you put in is pretty much what you get out.... and they do this very well. Schroeder makes no attempt to accurately reproduce the input signal, preferring instead to deliberately voice the cab for emphasis in the low mids and mids. And again, it does this very well.

    What sort of use will the cab get? Studio? Live? What styles of music? What other gear have you got? These are all things I'd consider before making a recommendation of one over the other.
     
  9. B String

    B String Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    Hey Petebass. Can you tell me how the 1210 takes eq?
    I mean, can you overcome some of the middyness of the
    1210R by adding lows on the amp, or extracting mids?
     
  10. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    I'm a big fan of EQ generally. I've never tried eq'ing out the middyness because I don't feel the need, especially live where it's actualy very useful for hearing yourself better. Perhaps I made it out to be more obtrusive than it is.

    But I don't see why it couldn't be done. I'll give it a try on Saturday when I'm in the store next, but my guess is that I'll cut some 200Hz to start with and see where I need to go from there. I EQ'd a Behringer 210 so sound decent when I recently was forced to use one at a gig, I reckon the Schro won't be a problem.
     
  11. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    I sold my UL310 to buy a schroe 1212R and now I've recently bought a UL112 and just ordered a UL110. I still love my 1212R and prefer its tone to the UL310. To my ears the 1212R has tighter lows and definitely a nice low mid punch compared to the UL310 and that's exactly why I went back to schroeder (I've owned a schroe 1210R in the past). I MUCH prefer the 1212R to the UL310. Many people have said that the 1212L sounds quite similar to the 1210R, which is interesting (basically the 1212L doesnt have the same amount of low-end as the 1212R... and neither does the 1210R). The UL310 is my least favourite of these cabs... it sounds too dark to me.

    On bigger stages I will always bring my 1212R ( bigger stages where I can move more than 4 ft in front of my rig and the sound waves can 'develop'.

    So why the new UL112 + UL110 stack? Well, because I have found that cab stacking is the key to hearing yourself better. For me, its better to have a top cab angled towards my ears... and this facilitates hearing my rig better than accentuated low-mids. So for small stages, which I play about 70% of the time, I'm going to use the UL112 + UL110 stack. The other major advantage of the UL112 + UL110 stack is that I can get both of these cabs in the front seat of my small car. Additionally, they only weigh 52LBS combined.

    Ultimately though, cab stacking is the best way to hear myself better and thats why I'm going the UL112 + UL110 stack route. I should also mention that epi cabs sound very good.

    Any of these cabs are just the cat's pajamas!
     
  12. I use to own the Epi UL110 / UL112 stack both S1. They sounded great together. I liked them more when run together than either one on it's own. Sold them in the end for a stack of EA NL210s. I loved the tone from the Epi stack but on many occasions they just couldn't keep up in the bigger venues ie, 250+ people. They would just get buried in the mix and had no presence. But I suppose theres only so much a 1x10, 1x12 setup will do. I also use to own the Eden 210XLT which from what I have heard is similar to the Schroeder in voicing regarding the low-mid push which is inherent in these cabs. Whilst the Eden was louder, the tone of the Epi stack ate it. I really didn't like the heavy low mid voicing of the Eden & Schroeder cabs. For me these type of cabs just interfere with natural sound of your bass. the Epi's are fairly accurate in reproducing your bass. This is why I went the EA NL210 way. I seem to have plenty of volume and presence when I need it and still have a fairly accurate response of my bass. The EA's also have some of their own low-mid colour but no where near as much as the Eden's or Schroeders and seem to have a low mid push and warmth which stays very clear at the same time not muddy as I use to experience with the others.
     
  13. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Cool.

    I can see that the Epi UL110 / UL112 stack wouldnt be hugely loud for big venues, but for my 3 piece Rockabilly band, it should be fine. Also, for the bigger venues I really only need the Epi UL110 / UL112 stack for stage monitoring as the big venues all have PA support for bass where I live.

    The schroes do definitely colour your tone, but IMO its a good colour. I dont think the schroders and eden cabs sound similar at all, although I agree they both have a low-mid push, but the schroes low-mids are more significant.

    EA cabs are awesome. I ran a wizzy stack that I loved. Very portable. My wizzys were both 4 ohms so I had to have a head that can run two ohms and I didnt like doing that to my head all the time. Apparently now you can get 8 ohm wizzys.

    I'd probably love the NL210 stack too.
     
  14. B String

    B String Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    As much as I like the UL310 and the UL112/UL110 stack, I'd
    really like to check out the NL210 boxes, but I've got some
    fear. These are the only boxes I know of that time and time
    again, are failing at a high rate. I've had numerous pm's
    from guys who pushed the NL210's and had speaker failure.
    Many ads in the classifieds state "new speakers". That's the
    reason I'm looking at the 1210L.
     
  15. Yeah, B string

    I hear ya, on your fear of the NL210. I've heard about some problem they had with some earlier batches but EA is fairly new in Australia. My stack has been sweet running with my iamp800 and Eden WT800C. I have the newer model with the new tuff tolex finish, plactic stacking corners and updated drivers.
     
  16. B String

    B String Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    Have you pushed the speakers a bit? I love the EA guys,
    but even with the newer Neo speakers, I've been hearing
    about failures when pushed hard, possibly from the
    transmission line technology being so hard on the speakers
    EA is using. I don't have factual evidence on this, just a lot
    of word of mouth. Maybe I'll ask Tom Bowlus if he knows anything.
     
  17. Yeah, I've used them at outdoor world music festivals with 3 vocalist, drums, percussion, guitars - acoustic & electric, sax, clarinet, trumpet & keys. No problems at all. I had the iamp800 set on about 1-2 o'clock on the input gain and 3 o'clock on the master and everything seemed to be cruising. Plenty of presence on stage which is all I was worried about seeing I had FOH support. I've also done private functions with a similar sort of lineup where things can get a little more over the top but I seem to have no problems dealing with those situations as well.

    My opinion with gear is that everything is fine as long as it is used within it's limits. I think a lot of players need to figure out what their actual needs are and whether the gear they have or are looking at is going to fulfill those needs. Everybody is different and so is the gear.
     
  18. lomo

    lomo passionate hack Supporting Member

    Apr 15, 2006
    Montreal
    I have the 1212L and Epi 112 and 210. I find the Epi cabs inherently scooped (in a pleasing way) and the Schro cab very mid-forward. As far as hearing yourself on stage, bear in mind that in the Schro cabs, one driver is "side"-firing. Therefore, with the cab vertical, you can choose to either aim the 2nd cone at your head or into the floor. The Schro excels at making the bass easy to hear.
     
  19. CH Design

    CH Design Supporting Member

    Apr 25, 2007
    Ottawa, ON
    I'm reading a lot of comments on the "mid-forward" sound of the Schro. Is it an actual bump in the mids, or does it just seem that way because the Epi's are a little scooped?
     
  20. ::::BASSIST::::

    ::::BASSIST:::: Progress Not Perfection.

    Sep 2, 2004
    Vancouver, BC Canada

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