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Epifani 410 UL compared to Schroeder 1210 & 1212

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by GeorgeG, Aug 31, 2005.


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  1. GeorgeG

    GeorgeG Commercial User

    Jun 15, 2005
    Sydney, Australia
    Owner of Bass Gear Direct
    Hi everyone, still researching my options for a more compact versatile speaker cabinet. As mentioned in previous threads I own a Epi 410UL. I still love it nice and light but bulky.

    Showed some interest in the EA NL-210, sounds like a great cab. But I have done some more reading on Schroeders and I am really interested in people that may have had experience with the Epi 410UL and the Schroe's 1210 or 1212 and if they could give any idea if it is worth selling the Epi and buying one of the Schroeders to use as a standalone or whether I'm wasting my time.

    I suspect that the 1210 may be as loud or louder as the epi and cut thru better than the epi and the 1212 even better as I think the epi sounds a little more mid-scooped. It is hard for me to A'B the epi with the schroeders as there are no Schroeder dealers here in Aussie Land.
    So please some very useful opinions and advise would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks GeorgeG.
     
  2. I own a 410UL and a Schroeder1210... both great cabs. The 1210 is an amazing cab for its size, and has a unique, punchy low mid sound that makes it seem even louder in a gig situation. That being said, it is not even close to the sound levels and fullness, etc. of the 410UL, and only weighs about 10 pounds less. If you are looking for an additional small cab to use for smaller gigs, the 1210 would be a good option. If you really like the 410UL sound, a 112UL or 210UL (or 310UL) would also be a good option. In no way, though, could I say that you could replace the 410UL with the 1210. While I understand the 1212 is somewhat fuller than the 1210 in the lows, I would think that the sound profile would be even farther away from the 410UL.

    Given all of the above, I'm glad I have both cabs... two wonderful but different flavors... If I was forced to keep only one, it would be the 410UL by a wide margin.
     
  3. GeorgeG

    GeorgeG Commercial User

    Jun 15, 2005
    Sydney, Australia
    Owner of Bass Gear Direct
    Thanks Ken,
    You're the sought of person I really want to hear from.
    When you say fullness of the epi 410 what do you exactly mean. Do you mean a fatter, wider mid range compared to the schroeders. Also from your reply I gather the schroeders have good cut in a live sitution but still not as good as the epi 410.
    GeorgeG.
     
  4. I think it's just the physics of that big 410 box... when you really get up to massive volume with a lot of watts going into it (I have a 4ohm 410UL), to my ear, the low end of the 410UL just keeps getting louder and bigger at very high volumes. I also really like the upper mid articulateness of that cab... the original non-neo 410-T's actually had even more bottom and fullness, but I prefer the UL lines very crisp articulate sound... I can hear every nuance to every note even when playing loud. I don't really hear that cab is particularly 'scooped', but would agree it doesn't have a low mid bump, like the Eden 410XLT.

    The Schroeder does have that low mid bump (IMO), and that's a very important frequency area for bass projection in a busy mix... but it is a relatively small box.... so, even though it is very loud for its size, it can't really compete with that big 410UL for low end projection at a high volume level(I assume that's why Jorg makes his own 410!). I assume the 1212 would project more low end than the 1210, but I also understand you give up some mid articulation also... I have not played a 1212, but there are quite a few posts comparing the 1210 and 1212.

    So, from reading your post.... if you hear the 410UL as somewhat 'scooped', I assume that means you are looking for some additional low mid punch. If that's the case (i.e., the sound profile you are looking for), and you don't feel like you ever really push the 410UL, then the Schroeder 1210 might be a very good fit for you.

    It's interesting how many different experiences we TBer's have. I read a lot of posts that comment that the 310UL (I have one of those also!) puts out similar sound levels as the 410UL. I can't figure these comments out... I have both, and there is just no comparison. The only thing I can think of is that if you are in a situation where you aren't really needing to crank out extremely high volume, then the 1210, the 310UL, the 410UL etc. could be very comparable... they all sound great and all get louder than most cabs their size or bigger. However, kind of like comparing a 100hp car and a 300hp car if you never go above 50 MPH!...

    Finally, given the 1210 is not a Neo cab, it's small but relatively heavy (I believe 48 pounds). Again, if you aren't using Neo cabs, it can seem very light... if you are used to the UL line, it feels like a ton of bricks sometimes!

    I'm sure other TBer's will chime in as it gets a little later in the morning in the US! :)

    Ken
     
  5. GeorgeG

    GeorgeG Commercial User

    Jun 15, 2005
    Sydney, Australia
    Owner of Bass Gear Direct
    Thanks again Ken.
    A lot of the time with the epi 410 when I feel like I need some mid range to project my sound better in a busy mix I just add some mid range boost at around 400 to 500hz, this normaly solves any cutting thru or projection issues I may have with certain venues or stage set-ups.
    As for the Schroeders from what you are saying I probably would achieve what I aiming for only at lower volume type of gigs where I would not miss my epi cabinet as much.

    Maybe I should be looking at a more compact type of epi setup for those type of gigs with a epi 110UL (19LBS) combined with a 112UL (30LBS) , (this is the same speaker configuration as the Schro'e 1210). I already know the sound and probably an easier lug.

    Would anyone have any ideas or experience on how this setup would go up against a Schroeder 1210. Epis are easier to get in Australia and reasonably priced compared to edens and some other major brands.
    GeorgeG.
     
  6. That might be a very good solution. Tom Bowlus has some Epi 10's and 12's I believe, and can probably comment. I had a pair of Epi T-110's a long time ago, and found that even for smaller gigs, they just didn't put out enough low end for my taste... however, the 112UL is a very nice cab, and many people swear by two of those. Good luck!
     
  7. Mike Dimin

    Mike Dimin

    Dec 11, 1999
    Clinician: EA, Zon, Boomerang, TI. Author "The Art of Solo Bass"
    kjung,

    I noticed that you are a Schroeder endorser. I think, to be fair, you should mention tha, somewhere in the post, so others can know just where you are coming from

    Mike
     
  8. I assume you are making a joke.... otherwise... you know something I don't :)

    PS I guess I actually sound more like an Epifani endorser anyway :D
     
  9. Mike Dimin

    Mike Dimin

    Dec 11, 1999
    Clinician: EA, Zon, Boomerang, TI. Author "The Art of Solo Bass"
    Ken,
    You are listed on the Schroeder's Player Page and are quoted, saying
    To endorse a product is to:
    If I am in error or Schroeder posted your picture and comments without permission that I am truly sorry.

    Mike
     
  10. Wilbyman

    Wilbyman

    Sep 10, 2003
    Parkersburg, WV
    Mike, by this logic I need to "disclose my endorsement" of every product I've ever said anything favorable about on Talkbass.

    Do you think Paul would let me extend my "user info" line by about forty words?
     
  11. vision

    vision It's all about the groove! Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2005
    Ann Arbor, MI
    the schroeder's player page does not list endorsee's, it lists users. anyone who owns a schroeder can send in a pic and get on the page.

    also your definition of endorser, "To give approval of or support to, especially by public statement," would apply to anyone making comments on tb in approval of a product.
     
  12. Wow.... that's a different definition of 'endorser' that I've ever heard??? Cool... I can tell all my buddies I have an endorsement deal! Seriously, that means I'm an EA endorser among other brands, since I was one of their first customers and posted a number of comments on their 'guestbook' page years ago.... this is REALLY silly :rollno: What makes it even sillier is that I actually recommended the Epifani cab!!!! Sheesh :spit:
     
  13. Mike Dimin

    Mike Dimin

    Dec 11, 1999
    Clinician: EA, Zon, Boomerang, TI. Author "The Art of Solo Bass"
    First, It is not MY definition of an endorsement, it is the dictionary's.

    Secondly, a statment in support of the product, on the product's own corporate website was published. Sorry, but this constitutes and endorsement

    Mike
     
  14. Ok.... my final comment is 'wow' :confused:
     
  15. Wilbyman

    Wilbyman

    Sep 10, 2003
    Parkersburg, WV
    FWIW, the TB "Rules" don't use the word endorsement, so the word is completely irrelevant. Rule #8, which I believe is the pertinent guideline, states:

    Please be honest when representing yourself on TalkBass.com. Using two or more user accounts concurrently is prohibited. If you represent a dealer or manufacturer, and post as a shill, or register a duplicate username to act as a shill, the entire posting history of both accounts will be wiped from TalkBass, and the action will be made public. TalkBass.com reserves the right to check/verify all internet IP addresses for verification.

    I don't believe, from KJung's posts, that he represents Schroeder in any capacity.
     
  16. vision

    vision It's all about the groove! Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2005
    Ann Arbor, MI
    mike, there are 2 types of definitions:

    denotation - the most specific or direct meaning of a word, in contrast to its figurative or associated meanings.


    connotation - the set of associations implied by a word in addition to its literal meaning.
     
  17. klorence

    klorence

    Nov 21, 2001
    Pittsburgh, PA
    jeez mike, lighten up.

    i think that, generally, when we say "endorse" in the music/gear arena, it includes the connotation that an "endorser" is being compensated in one way or another.

    using a dictionary definition only would mean that i could say i've endorsed scores of manufacturers.

    wish i had the pile of free gear to show for it.
     
  18. Mike Dimin

    Mike Dimin

    Dec 11, 1999
    Clinician: EA, Zon, Boomerang, TI. Author "The Art of Solo Bass"
    No .. as I stated in the above post, anything you say on TB is an opinion, but the statement on the companies "Stationary" would be considered an endorsement.

    I don't understand why you guys are getting all hot. There is an endorsment for Schroeder products posted on the Schroeder web site by Ken Jung (and others) ...that's cool. Schroeder is using your image and statements for marketing purposes (as they should). All I sai, is that if you have an affiliation with a company, let it be known ... THAT IS ALL!!

    These are the rules that I have to follow, why shouldn't everyone

    Mike
     
  19. vision

    vision It's all about the groove! Supporting Member

    Feb 25, 2005
    Ann Arbor, MI
    the funniest thing about this is that kjung didn't even recommend the schroeder, he recommended the epifani... :rollno:
     
  20. Mike Dimin

    Mike Dimin

    Dec 11, 1999
    Clinician: EA, Zon, Boomerang, TI. Author "The Art of Solo Bass"
    First of all, there isn't a lot of free gear going around and very few artists who are being compensated.

    I get reported for almost every post I make regarding EA or MTD (even when I tried to sell a personal bass of mine). I get compensated from EA for work that I do for the company (writing, etc) and I am an MTD endorser with no compensation. So why is it that 90% of my posts get compained about and other's do not. Why is it that I must make clear my affiliations and others do not. There is no way one can tell by looking at the Schroeder site that Ken is not an endorser - his picture and comments are certainly being used that way.

    Mike
     



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