Dismiss Notice

Psst... Ready to join TalkBass and start posting, make new friends, sell your gear, and more?  Register your free account in 30 seconds.

Epifani/Bergantino crossovers?!?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Le Basseur, Apr 18, 2003.


  1. Le Basseur

    Le Basseur

    Mar 26, 2002
    Croatia
    Hi,everybody!
    Some time ago I listened a T115 cab by Epifani,and,among other good things,it struck me the incredible colour that the horn tweeter brings.
    I tried to find out what's happening by writing an email to Epifani,but no answer...surely,the guys have too much work to do instead of answering on such issues.
    I also saw that Bergantino (among others) cabs use the same trick,so my inquiry could refere to Bergies too.
    The question is:what kind of crossover do they use? 2nd order,3rd?!?
    Aside of that,does the woofer have some filter,or only the tweeter?
    And the last one:in every case,how are the drivers polarised regarding to the crossover,regarding the phase response?
    Thanks a lot!
     
  2. Kurt M.

    Kurt M.

    Dec 11, 2001
    Reading, PA
    There are plenty of cabs that use an adjustable horn tweeter. I have noticed that they sound quit different.

    I agree, that the engineers at the company should be the ones to answer these type of questions.

    It's disappointing to see that Epifani didn't respond to your email. There is no excuse for that. Strange thing is I was considering the 3/10 they make.
     
  3. Le Basseur

    Le Basseur

    Mar 26, 2002
    Croatia
    Now,don't get me wrong...it's a bit frustrating when you can't get your answers from the thech guys,but I can understand that....simply put,the folks ARE WORKING.
     
  4. narud

    narud Supporting Member

    Mar 15, 2001
    santa maria,california
    id try emailing again. ive always had them answered except for on one occasion a while back. when i called them up, they told me there computers had gone down and werent able to get to them. brett usually answers them.
     
  5. jerry

    jerry Doesn't know BDO Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 13, 1999
    Hawaii
    You should be able to get a reply from Jim Bergantio. The best customer service I've ever had!
     
  6. Petebass

    Petebass

    Dec 22, 2002
    QLD Australia
    You've gotta remember that there are some things that the designers will want to remain secret. I can see them handing out the crossover point and dB roll-off, but I can't see them handing out the phase plot.

    Choice of tweeter comes into it. If it helps, I heard that that Epifani use horns by P.Audio.
     
  7. jerry

    jerry Doesn't know BDO Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 13, 1999
    Hawaii
    Bergantion's X-over and horn are more expensive than your avarage bear's...........that's why they sound so sweet;)
     
  8. narud

    narud Supporting Member

    Mar 15, 2001
    santa maria,california
    they sure do
     
  9. Le Basseur

    Le Basseur

    Mar 26, 2002
    Croatia
    Yes,I understand this and I agree with the principle.
    It applies to so many brands...

    Choice of tweeter comes into it. If it helps, I heard that that Epifani use horns by P.Audio.
    Yes,thank you for the info!I identified it,it's the PHT 406 model.Actually,this is the most valuable piece of information I got,because knowing the used type of horn I can move forward!

    Bergantion's X-over and horn are more expensive than your avarage bear's...........that's why they sound so sweet

    Jerry,can you be more specific?Technical details,maybe?
    I'm very much in high-end audio with tubes (....oops...wrong forum....), :D and you'll be surprised to find out how many "myth constructions" can be demantled using common sense and a heap of experience and information.:)
    Here's a picture from Epifani's site,showing the connection's backplate with components.
    It looks like a 3rd order crossover for the tweeter (2C+1L),with no filtering for the woofer.
    What do you guys think?
     
  10. jerry

    jerry Doesn't know BDO Gold Supporting Member

    Dec 13, 1999
    Hawaii
    Technical details:eek: ......You should just give Jim a call or e-mail......he loves to talk about speakers.
    I just know what my ears tell me.....and they tell me the high end on the Bergies is just sweeter than most.
     
  11. emjazz

    emjazz Supporting Member

    Feb 23, 2003
    Boston, MA
    Call Jim Bergantino. He designed the Epifani crossover as well as his own.:cool:
     
  12. Le Basseur

    Le Basseur

    Mar 26, 2002
    Croatia
    I did,more than a month ago....the answer was quick indeed,very warm and polite,but without any trace of a tech info.Jim Bergantino spoke about some general principles wich most of us are already aware....
    Anyway,in the meantime,I took the hard way,and I built my own tweeter crossover,adequated for the tweeter I use.It took several hours 'till I made it "sing" according to my tastes (and besides,to look OK on the scope),but it's done.
    The cab plays like a dream,better than I expected (...no,I'm not an self-teaser,if the cab wouldn't sound as I like,I'd cut it in small pieces for a good barbecue...):eek:
    Again,thank you all!
     
  13. tombowlus

    tombowlus If it sounds good, it is good Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 3, 2003
    North central Ohio
    Editor-in-Chief, Bass Gear Magazine
    I called the guys at Epifani with some questions, and I was treated very politely and had my questions answered in detail by Brett. Very helpful on the telephone, but I can see how they might not keep up with all the e-mail.

    I don't have any Bergies, but the tweeters in the Epifani's have really impressed me. In my prior experience, I was always turning them down or off, as I didn't hear any real benefit from them and the hiss was normally pretty bad. The Epi's don't hiss much at all, and I could really hear the increased articulation on the high end. It was very natural. What Brett told me was than in addition to using very high quality components (and he did give me some details, but I forget them), they go through a lot of effort with their crossovers matching them to the individual drivers in the cab so that they interact well and the tweeter smoothly kicks in where the driver is rolling off.

    Give Epifani a call. I am sure that they will be helpful to you on the phone.

    Tom.
     
  14. JimboBass

    JimboBass

    May 23, 2003
    I check this page from time to time. Feel free to ask questions and I will try to answere them. I apologize to Le Basseur for not answering his questions. I try to always give some type of response.

    Brett at Epifani

    P.S.
    The question is:what kind of crossover do they use? 2nd order,3rd?!?
    Aside of that,does the woofer have some filter,or only the tweeter?
    And the last one:in every case,how are the drivers polarised regarding to the crossover,regarding the phase response?

    Our crossovers are 3rd order.

    The woofers does not have any filters or capacitors on them.

    The tweeter is an 18db high pass filter. Reguarding polarization, some of our crossovers are in phase and some are out of phase. Our different models use different crossovers.
     
  15. Le Basseur

    Le Basseur

    Mar 26, 2002
    Croatia
    .....THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I MADE WITHOUT KNOWING THE ORIGINAL SPECS!!!!
    As I once said,I was very impressed about the Epifani/Bergie sound,and it become obvious that this path is a "must-be" for me.
    Because I live in Europe,I cannot afford to buy an original cab (the shipping costs are outrageous,not to mention the customs.....),so I decided to clone a Epifani T115,....wich I,actually,did!(....sorry,folks...but I had to get THAT sound!)
    I used the 15-inch SP15A-400PA woofer and MHD 230RD horn tweeter from Stage Line (actually,the horn is almost identical with the original P Audio in the Epifanis),the cab being calculated using....the background pictures on the site!
    My woofer has no crossover,as in the original product,and the horn has a 3rd order Xover using fast caps,OFC home-made air-core inductance and a ceramic L-pad.After several hours of testing,playing and listening,I established the Fc on 2,1 KHz,as the best possible compromise for that particular tweeter.
    Now,that I read your last comments and informations,I'm really happy I got to the same results as one of the best-sounding cab brand in the world....
    I wouldn't dare to make this cab for others...this one is for my personal use,and I do not intend to make a business from this...but,boy,what a wonderful feeling!!!
    Thanks again,guys,for all your support!:D :D :D