Epifani UL 502 & UL 310

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by melodiaopus, Jun 26, 2008.

  1. melodiaopus

    melodiaopus Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 9, 2007
    Northern California
    I have an Epifani UL 502 amp and an UL 310 cab 4ohm. I've been contemplating on getting a power amp with more wattage like a Stewart 1.2 so that way I wouldn't be pushing my head so much and I'd get more output. My only concern is, is that since the UL 310 cabs are not really 4ohm more like 3.2 or something weird like that.. would it be wise to do such a thing to my cab if all I wanted was to get more volume without stressing my head? If you have any suggestions let me know. Thanks a lot.

  2. CElton

    CElton I'm a new note finder...

    Isn't the UL310 5.3 ohms? Which means you really aren't pushing your 502...If you want more volume, maybe you should consider the UL410.

  3. The 502 will 'stress' the 310UL more than the other way around.

    The 5.3 ohms of the 310UL gets most of the power out of the 502 (probably about 525 watts). That is plenty power to drive that 310UL to full volume.

    IMO, your issue is probably the 310UL... great cab, but as I've posted a number of times, it behaves more like a big 210 than a compact 410. Also, given that it is rather wide-voiced (deep low end, polite mids), that also works against that cab punching through a mix at high volumes.

    Finally, the 502 voicing is also wide and full, with very little growl or grunt... very pure. Be very careful with the bass control (don't boost) and the mids (don't cut!).

    That was a long winded way of saying if you have a volume problem, there should probably be a 410 in your future. Pumping a lot more wattage into the 310UL (given you already have over 500 going into it) will probably not solve your problem.

    A 4ohm 410UL with the 502 gets loud as all heck, although I still wouldn't call the tone 'punchy'... more 'huge and wide'... lot's of low end.

    IMO and IME.
  4. melodiaopus

    melodiaopus Gold Supporting Member

    Feb 9, 2007
    Northern California
    So, in all reality a 410 would get the most output because of the stable ohms that are associated with those cabs? Adding a extra 10" speaker pushes more air. I don't know why I thought they were a 3.2 ohm cab.. I vaguely remember someone telling me that. I feel that I get great tone out of this set-up. I use a Warwick Thumb Bolt-On that is already very punchy and growling.. I'm just more concerned about have a great tone when I turn up a larger venues. Once I turn the volume up either at a jazz gig or a funk gig, even a rock gig my tone somewhat disappears. I had this achy feeling when I bought it through Van Gelder Music in NYC that I should I maybe think about getting the UL-410, I just thought it would've been too much amp for what I was doing and still doing. I've been really thinking about selling the 502 for quite sometime and going with a either the LMII or Markbass 800, but I have yet heard anything about either heads through a UL-410.. do you have any insight on that?
  5. Per you PM regarding your post above, I thought I'd respond on the thread, so that others can react, agree, disagree, etc.

    It's not really an issue with the impedance. 5.3 ohms is so close to 4 ohms that you would never know the difference. It's all about the number of drivers and the size of the box. The difference between 5.3 and 4ohms is probably about 50 or 60 watts with your head.... not really noticable. If that cab was 3.2 ohms, your 502 would go 'boom', since its minimum safe operating level is 4 ohms.

    I own the 502, the LMII, the SA450, the F1, and I recently sold the SD800. As you can tell, I like the Markbass stuff. The SD800 was a little to 'sterile and hi fi' for my tastes... HUGE low end, and a little too much in the upper mids for me. I LOVE the F1! I like the 502. It has more low end ooomph than the F1/LMII, but not quite as much midrange articulation, which I really like for my pop/funk/jazz playing.

    The F1 and the 502 sound GREAT through a 410UL 4ohm version. The 'problem' with the current Epifani cabs is that they changed the weight spec on them... so the newest 410UL's weigh around 66 pounds versus the original 57 of the Series I and earlier Series II. That's enough difference that you would notice it.

    Great stuff though. My favorite rig for my kind of 'Will Lee' modern Jazz bass tone is the new Bergantino AE410 and the Markbass F1... small, light, and POUNDING in the lower mids and mid mids! I like it.

    Back to your point, the 310UL is just limited by physics.... there's just so much ooomph a relatively small box with 3 speakers can put out, versus a relatively large box with 4 speakers. The impedance difference is minor.

    By the way, the reason the 310UL is 5.3 ohms is because Nice Epifani uses the same 16 ohm drivers as he does in the 410UL.... three 16 ohm speakers results in a 5.3 ohm impedance. To get 3 speakers to 4ohms would require an unusual 12 ohm speaker, which would be a specail order.... more cost for Nick.

    Hope that makes sense!


    PS If you really needed more oomph... you could always take out a loan and get an Epi902 and a second 310UL... that would take care of all volume issues
  6. +1 Ken! I really admire your ability to just nail what I'm thinking, but you do it so much more fluently than I ever could somehow! :bassist:

    When I first started with Epi gear, it was one UL310, which wasn't enough at times, and I would also lose 'my tone' at higher volumes. So I ventured onto 2 ul310's with a CA9/Demeter setup which was a very very nice setup, but I got tired of lugging around both cabs ALL THE TIME. So, I sold off all that gear and bought a UL502 and UL410(I). Well, it was my main gigging amp for over a year now. Currently I'm on the AE410/DB750 kick, but the ul410(I) and ul502 are still a phenomenal combination, and they are both still in my arsenal. In fact, I think they are the only 2 pieces of gear that I have held onto for such a long time. As some have said, the ul410 is exponentially louder than the ul310. It's just not a loudness issue, IMO, it's the ul410's ability to keep 'your tone' consistent throughout various volume levels in the mix, and also having the ability to cut though the mix much better.

  7. I was in the same boat as you... I used a 310UL for quite a while, and it was great for about 70% of my gigs. It just compressed too much at high volumes for me too often, and like you, once I went to the 410UL (4ohm), I never had an issue with that frustrating compression in the low end and upper mids again (as you point out.. that 'changing tone' as you get louder).

    I'm also on a big AE410 kick right now.... so we are living parallel lives at the moment:D

    Edit: As I've posted probably too often, I find the 310UL is the 'best 210 I've ever owned'. I still highly recommend it to those who need '210 volume' but a little more ooomph. GREAT cab for medium volume and even some high volume situations for some tones and playing styles.
  8. el_Kabong


    Jul 11, 2005

    If you change the head and keep the cab you're still going to have basically the same problems, imo. If it were me, I'd definitely start by going to a 410 and then if I wasn't happy think about a different amp.

    The UL410 and AE410 both have their strengths and weaknesses. With an instrument that you describe as very punchy and growling you might prefer the extra width of the Epi tone. My very mid focused sadowsky Modern sounds better overall with an epi quest/ca9 & UL410 than it does with an AE410 and SA450. With a mid focused rig it starts to sound somewhat guitar like to me, it seems to need that extra depth. With quality gear it's all about finding the right combinations that deliver the tone you're after.