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Epifani UL2 410 Awesome but... Xsonics to the rescue. Need Help.

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by MuthaFunk, Oct 20, 2013.


  1. Hey guys, I recently found a Epifani 410UL2 series 2 with the eminence drivers and the light weight (57 lbs) wood. It seemed like a fine cab with effortless low end and beautiful top. The somewhat suppressed mids that other TB'ers spoke of in the past was very true. Being an Eden fan, I've always like the Enhance control which provided a scooped tone anyway. The UL2 really sounded great on my first two gigs that had rather large stages and little to no reflective surfaces within 10 ft of the cab. I loved it's sound....

    Then, I took it to one of my most tone troubled venues this past weekend. It was placed in a corner on a smaller stage and the tone was a disaster. It's rare when I cant seem to dial in my amp. In this case I was using my Markbass LMTube 800. The LMT800 just seems to sound best with this cab compared to my Eden WTX500, Mesa Walkabout or SWR Headlite. On this day it was a real struggle to get any sound out front. The stage seemed absolutely defining loud though. The guys in my band were a little pissed at my apparent volume. When I stepped out to the room, the volume just fell off...

    I had my trusty gig machine, the Xsonics 212CF in the car which on this gig in the past, I've paired up with my Bergantino AE410 to get the volume I need. Surprisingly that pair works great for me. After the disastrous first set, I placed the Xsonics under the UL2 410 powered by an SWR Amplite and bang! My tone just jumped out into the room for all to hear.

    Giving my positive experience with the Epifani UL2 410 on the previous gigs I was hoping this would go equally as well and I could relegate my Berg AE410 to the Studio only. The Xsonics 212CF got me through this gig but it wasn't ideal along with the UL410. The cabs just sound too different without separate EQ's for both. Also, I did experience some minor low end phase cancelling which in this case helped the huge stage volume a bit.

    Do you guys have any suggestions on how I can get the Epifani out in the room better? I'd really like it to be a one cab to fit all situations. I'm always using my FDeck HPF3 but even turned up to 80Hz it didn't really help get the mids out in this venue. I don't have much room to move the cab out of the corner.... I just don't know what other tricks I could do... Any ideas?
     
  2. Use your Eden head with the Epi. That cab needs serious help in the low mids. Forget about the fdeck also. The Markbass head has that Lo mid control centered way too high.

    No need to roll off low end, just bump up the low mids between 100 and 200 hz.
     
  3. I would use the ae212 and the LM800 and be happy. Much more even response and 90% of the output in a smaller package.
     
  4. Thanks Ken. I tried the Eden with the Epifani and didn't like it. It's treble center seemed a little too high for the Epifani to sound musical IMO. The WTX doesnt really have a good 200 Hz eq spot either. Im sure my WT400 could sound great with that cab but its just too large to fit in my gig bag. Im so spoiled with micros now. I still think I'll use the Fdeck HPF set to its lowest frequency just to help protect the custom Eminence drivers from overexcursion. I think I read here that they're a little hard to get should I blow one.

    Any other suggestions on a micro head that could work well with this cab? Please don't say F500!!!! I just sold mine this past summer at a good loss. :(
     
  5. I misread and thought you had a wt550. Nice cab but pretty scooped. Always fought mine in all but the most oerfect rooms. Any head with good control of the low mids will help a lot.
     
  6. I forgot my SWR Headlite has a parametric EQ. I didn't really give it much of a shot because the Markbass LMT800 sounded good to me. Perhaps I'll have to try it again and see if I can bypass the AE and bump the low mids...

    Thanks again for the suggestions.
     
  7. Jim Carr

    Jim Carr Dr. Jim Gold Supporting Member

    Jan 21, 2006
    Denton, TX or Kailua, HI
    fEARful Kool-Aid dispensing liberal academic card-carrying union member Musicians Local 72-147
    Love my UL1 410 with a Mesa M9 carbine. GEQ helps.
     
  8. Ul1 is quite different from ul2
     
  9. Jim Carr

    Jim Carr Dr. Jim Gold Supporting Member

    Jan 21, 2006
    Denton, TX or Kailua, HI
    fEARful Kool-Aid dispensing liberal academic card-carrying union member Musicians Local 72-147
    True dat.
     
  10. Just wondering if you have tried to run just the xsonics cab? Lots of praise for that cab. Just wondering why it isnt meeting your needs as a 1 cab soloution.
     
  11. The Xsonics 212CF really is an amazing cab. I've been very happy with it for 90% of my gigs but I have this one gig where just about any 212 seems to fall short. When I say I want a one cab solution, I mean for this one gig. All the others I'll still bring my 212CF.

    I used to push my Eden D410XLT to it's limits to keep up on this so called tone troubled gig. The Eden was very efficient and really projected well out in to the room yet it barely kept up until it's ultimate demise.

    This is my only gig where I need to go without pa support but probably should have it. My Bergantino AE410 can keep up the same way my D410XLT did but it's working rather hard. I dont want to abuse that sweet (now discontinued) Berg like I did my Eden and end up with creased drivers.

    With the AE410, 212CF, and D410XLT I always boost the low end on my amp. With the natural deepness of the Epifani 410UL2 I thought I'd be able to run my amps and cab a little less harder and perhaps get more perceivable bass out in the room. I guess I was wrong... I'll have to try a different amp next time and pump up the low mids.

    I'm also debating on buying a second 212CF for this one gig. It's such a breeze to move, a pair would be ridiculous loud and I'm sure this gig would be no issue at all. I'm just lazy and was looking for a one cab solution. Really, the club should just get a better pa but I don't see that happening.
     
  12. Tonally if the 212 does it for you, adding a second is a logical move.
     
  13. Dom5string

    Dom5string

    May 4, 2013
    My 410 isn't seeing much gig time since I got my Xsonics 212cf either. I recently added a 1155TF and the 2 work great together and are still easier to haul than
    my 410 and get louder and clearer to me. It's kinda rare for me to need 2 cabs but when I do the added 15" really thumps it out!

    I totally dig Bass Club Chicago because they have Bergantino, Aguilar, Form Factor and Xsonics too. Very cool to be able to A/B different cabs at the same time and place.
     
  14. My $0.02 is not most likely worth much but the trouble out in the room compared to stage volume is one reason I do not care for the LM800 Tube. I tried a lot of suggestions to try amp make that head work as to not offend our keyboardist. We practice at his place in the cooler months, but my 800RB is going there for this round.
     
  15. Interesting thought that its the amp...

    I know there are a bunch of people who are Markbass fans that don't like the LMT800. I don't count myself among them. I've had the F500 and the LM III as well and IMO the LMT800 is a super upped LM III. It does everything the LM III can do and more.

    As for the LMT800 being responsible for the extreme stage but low room volume, I can't subscribe to that. I've been using that head with my other cabs an haven't noticed this particular problem with them. It stands to reason my problem stems from the one thing I've changed, the cab... and the venue.

    As Kjung pointed out earlier in this thread, its likely a case of a mismatch of the head and cab for this particular stage. It's kind of weird because I've never really experienced that before. Usually once I find a tone I like its only minor changes to the EQ to suit each different venue.

    Ill keep experimenting... Next time I'm going to bring my Peavey IPR3000 and Putnam modded VTBass with a great semi-parametric mid control that is selectable from 100hz to 1 K. I think I'll be able to get it dialed in with that. If not, Ill have to rock the Xsonics with it again.
     
  16. I have never played the LM800. I owned the SD800 and (for a day!) the LMT800, and they were both awful matches with the 410UL (I or II... I had both at the time). Interestingly, I assume due to the expanded low end/lower hi passing' of the 800 series heads, the LMII and F1 both resulted in more absolute volume from my 410UL's. Also, that spike in the upper midrange was hard to control, even with the semi-parametric of the SD800.

    However, I have read reports that the LM800 is differently voiced, so who knows.

    That being said, the 410UL(II) is very deeply voiced, no lower mid bumped, and a severe drop in the upper midrange, with a very sweet sounding tweeter that kind of 'floats above the cab' (strange experience of a cab having very little brightness or top end/upper midrange/lower treble, but yet that snaps nicely when slapping.... there is a reason that the slappers love the 410UL!.

    The point is, a cab with that sort of voicing seems very picky regarding head pairing. The 410UL always pumps out the big low end, and is almost impossible to compress... massive low end. In a difficult room, and especially with a head that has a low end ratio that greatly favors the low bass versus the upper bass, it can be a mess, as you found out.
     

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