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EQ

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by DRN, Mar 17, 2002.


  1. DRN

    DRN

    Mar 17, 2002
    Las Vegas
    I need some help. I have always had a problem with getting a good tone. I play rock/funk I use a pick most of the time except when slapping. I am looking for a big clean tone. clean clear lows with rounded hi's and big mid punch.
    I usually have the B string tuned to low A and drop tune the e sometimes.

    I always seem to get a very metalic sound. If I add bass or mids it seems to get so undefined and messy. If I clean it up I loose all bass and I am back to metalic.

    This is what I am playing.
    Kern IP-777 pre amp
    Crown Q2 power amp
    BBE 442 sonic maximizer
    (2) Eden 410xlt 4 ohm cabs
    Warwick thumb bolt on
    Tobias growler (pre gibson)

    Any help would be great or if you have any site recommendations that would help please list url

    Thanks,
    Dave
     
  2. chucko58

    chucko58

    Jan 17, 2002
    Silicon Valley, CA, USA
    I paid for all my gear myself. Well, me and MasterCard.
    Sometimes it's not what you boost, but what you cut, that makes all the difference. I like (pre)amps with full parametric or semi-parametric midrange controls, because you can go looking for that troublesome frequency and dial it out.

    How does your rig sound when you leave out the BBE?
     
  3. Right,you can't boost everything. Have you tried pulling back your mids a little bit? That's what most funk and rock players do. Go with the "smiley face" eq. Bump the lows and highs and pull back the mids a little. That gives you a clear,punchy type of sound. Maybe you've tried this already. :)
     
  4. DRN

    DRN

    Mar 17, 2002
    Las Vegas
    Yeah I have tried this to some extent but a great tone still eludes me. I was thinking of taking out one of the four tens and adding a 2 fifteen cab. I think I may be able to get the clean lows and great rounded hi's with this set up.

    I also just read another Eden player uses 2 4 10 cabs and a 2 twelve cab.

    Thanks for the input.

    Dave
     
  5. DRN

    DRN

    Mar 17, 2002
    Las Vegas
    chucko58

    If I take out the BBE it makes a slight difference. Definately for the better.

    What do you think about using the Q2 crown power amp. I keep thinking I should check out alternate power amps. Maybe tube.

    Thanks for the reply

    Dave
     
  6. BFunk

    BFunk Supporting Member

    I also have a Kern pre-amp. This particular pre tend sto be very bass heavy. Here are some suggestions that I find have worked for me.

    If you add more bass, cut the mids somewhat. The controls are the old fender pre style. This means that they are very interactive. The mid-point of the mid control seems to shift depending on what the treble and bass are set for.

    The most important feature of the Kern's eq is the balance control. This acts like a very sophisticated tone control. Turning it to the right opens up the top end. Further turning it to the right reduces the amount of bass control. Turning it left reduces the top end, further left starts to open up the bottom more. It is really effective.
     
  7. chucko58

    chucko58

    Jan 17, 2002
    Silicon Valley, CA, USA
    I paid for all my gear myself. Well, me and MasterCard.
    Hmmm....

    I don't know anything about that particular model, but Crown power amps in general have a good reputation. I doubt it's the problem.

    I'd avoid tube power amps for bass, unless you have an uncle in the tube business and a road crew to haul your gear.
     
  8. DRN

    DRN

    Mar 17, 2002
    Las Vegas
    Yeah your right my 10 space road case is heavy enough already. Just a little burned out on tone. I seem to never get it right.
    I go to a small club and this guy on stage has a small combo amp and it is kickin. He is not going thru the mains etc. Just stage volume.


    Dave
     
  9. BFunk

    BFunk Supporting Member

    I have a Aguilar DB 728 tube power amp. It's in a seperate shock-mount case w/casters. Worth every ounce.
     
  10. JMX

    JMX Vorsprung durch Technik

    Sep 4, 2000
    Cologne, Germany
    Just lay the pick aside and go fingerstyle.
    You'll find that your sound goal is much easier to achieve that way.
     
  11. DRN

    DRN

    Mar 17, 2002
    Las Vegas
    Yeah I agree totally. The problem is have been using a pic/slap style for so long (10 yrs) it is like telling a smoker to stop because he will feel better. I guess I am looking for a magic pill to give me the illusion of finger style tone.

    I kick myself in the ass daily for not starting with fingering.

    Thanks,
    Dave
     
  12. If it's pretty much just that you want to reduce the metallic sound, I'd say go for some really warm strings, (half-rounds, nickels, or even flats), raise your action a bit to reduce fret noise, and play closer to the bridge. These steps might remedy your problem without any major gear changes. I think your rig is fine, even with the 10s.

    Personally, I like a little "zing" to give me sound a nice edge. Upper mids with ballsy lows are the thing for me.....
     
  13. DRN

    DRN

    Mar 17, 2002
    Las Vegas
    Thanks for the ideas. I will try them. I agree with the sizzle and tight lows punchy mids. That is what I am looking for.
    I usually end up with a tinty bass sound or muddy lows and mids.

    Thanks
    Dave
     
  14. brianrost

    brianrost Gold Supporting Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Boston, Taxachusetts
    Don't forget your onboard EQs!!!! Try running them flat and dialing in the Kern first, then use the onboard controls for SMALL tweaks.

    With all the gear you have you should have a great tone right out of the box so I'd suggest one other thing:

    TURN THE AMP UP AND PLAY WITH A LIGHTER TOUCH. The key to fat tone is a light touch on the strings. Let the amp do the work, if you are playing too aggressively it will choke the tone big time giving you the symptoms you complain about, too metallic and bright.
     
  15. Wxp4759cb

    Wxp4759cb

    Nov 23, 2000
    Kansas City, MO
    You could try felt picks.
     
  16. DRN

    DRN

    Mar 17, 2002
    Las Vegas
    Thanks for all the tips the feedback is great. Chris I actually thought of felt pics yesterday. I have not tried them yet though.

    I may have found something to answer my prayers. I just borrowed a Lakeland from a music store to try for the night. This thing is awsome!!!!!!!!!!!
    A HUGH TONE, sustain like a neck through in a bolt on. Tone is awsome. I think I have to buy this. It is a bit expensive though. 2,300.00 but I was so inspired and could not put it down.
    I never considered them before because I am not a fan of fender bases and they always looked like a p bass. Boy was I wrong. The only thing I am goinng to have to get used to is the big body and larger string spacing. The 35" scale is great for the low B espically since I usually tune it to a low A.

    Just my two cents. let me know if anyone else has experience with Lakeland.,

    Thanks
    Dave
     
  17. jokerjkny

    jokerjkny

    Jan 19, 2002
    NY / NJ / PA
    lol,

    not to sound like a smarty pants, but i was right about to post that maybe you should try using another bass. it might be a more expensive option, but a very valid one. experiment and see which one would give you your tone. if anything, your bass is the cornerstone of your tone. your amp and its EQ only accentuates or subtracks. it doesnt give it your personality as strongly. but it seems you found your match.
     
  18. CrawlingEye

    CrawlingEye Member

    Mar 20, 2001
    Easton, Pennsylvania
    The way I see it...

    In order of effect (on your tone), the prime suspects are:

    1. Bass
    2. Amp (head/cab)
    3. Strings
    4. EQ

    All are VERY big players, but that's just what I see as your largest, and in that order. :)

    You can get good tone with a not-so-hot amp, or with not-so-hot strings...

    EQing can be a lot harder than most think.

    If you boost two frequencies, the one that you're boosting becomes less apparent because of the other. It's kind of like you're just increasing a pond size. You still have the same amount of water.

    EQing takes a few years to "really" figure out.
    I mean, you can learn what does what, but to really gain knowledge of how to get your set tone, it can be difficult...
     
  19. DRN

    DRN

    Mar 17, 2002
    Las Vegas
    jokerjkny

    Yeah I assumed that the bass was not the problem since I hear Warwick thumb basses on alot of live rigs and they sound great. Mine always sounded muddy and undefined. When I was in the music shop yesterday I played a Warwick Streamer through 2 Eden 410 XLT it sounded a little better but when I plugged in the Lakeland it blew my head off. I could not believe the difference in tone and clarity.
    I guess I just do not like the sound of Warwick

    Thanks,
    Dave
     
  20. Arrrgghhh....

    Sorry to disagree here but the use of the "smiley face" EQ is one of my pet peeves. Many bassists are initially seduced by this EQ pattern since it sounds great when they are playing alone and standing 2 feet in front of their gear. Add in the rest of the band and stand 15 feet away from the amp and what do ya get? Mud. No cut and no definition. Great for that Fieldy tone though. Clackity clackity clack......

    To DRN:
    I agree with the others. Start with your EQ flat and experiment a little bit with boost and cut at certain frequencies. You might be surprised!