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Etiquette - finding a sub, then pulling gig from them

Discussion in 'Band Management [BG]' started by slaps76, Dec 6, 2011.


  1. slaps76

    slaps76

    Jul 10, 2008
    Medford, MA
    Just wondering your thoughts on this, because I'm a little annoyed with my bandmate.

    Lead guitarist told us a while back he couldn't do a gig we have booked for Dec 17th. We found a really good sub for him for a previous gig, so I asked him to do this one as well, which he agreed.

    Lead guitarist over the past two weeks has been telling me "I don't know..I might be able to do this date," the reason he thought he needed a sub because he has a family party, and wasn't sure how late he'd be there. I told him, this sub is a pro musician, this is his how he makes his living, so we gotta give him as much notice, since he may be turning down gigs in the meantime for that date.

    The money doesn't really matter to my lead guitarist, he makes a lot from his day to day career, so he probably wasn't putting himself in the sub's shoes too much.

    Today the lead guitarist calls me and says he can do the date. I email the sub, and yup....he's turned down 2 gigs for this since agreeing to it. I just feel bad & unprofessional, probably more so since I found this guy, and now afraid he won't do any more dates for us if needed. It is almost 2 weeks away, but still....
     
  2. Pretty unprofessional, someone will get a bad reputation from events like this.
     
  3. slaps76

    slaps76

    Jul 10, 2008
    Medford, MA
    I agree. I think my guitarist will back down if I had the talk with him again. Last week when he brought up the possibility of playing, and I told him it's cutting it close time-wise since this guy does this for a living, he just said "ok, just let him play it." But I know he'd much rather play the gig than not.
     
  4. lowfreq33

    lowfreq33

    Jan 27, 2010
    Nashville
    Endorsing Artist: Genz Benz Amplification
    You should tell the guitarist to take the night off and give it to the sub.
     
  5. +1 integrity is everything....
     
  6. jaywa

    jaywa

    May 5, 2008
    Iowa City, IA
    This is pretty much universally accepted as way not-cool.

    Your regular guy is more than welcome to take back the gig... so long as the money goes to the guy who was gonna sub for him.
     
  7. slaps76

    slaps76

    Jul 10, 2008
    Medford, MA
    I emailed my lead guitarist just now, telling him I feel like sh!t taking the gig back from the guy, and reminding him this is what he does for a living. I'm leaving it up to him, because I'm not starting a fight within my band over this(at least this time), and think he'll do the right thing...

    Thanks for the input, your answers were right on what I expected.
     
  8. Have the sub play or pay him off, don't stiff a pro player you never know how it may hurt you.
     
  9. Staredge

    Staredge

    Aug 7, 2010
    Germantown, MD
    ^this
     
  10. bikeplate

    bikeplate Supporting Member

    Jun 7, 2001
    Upstate NY
    Hi

    Let your buddy do the gig but you should pay the other guy you hired. Only way to save face

    Rob
     
  11. slaps76

    slaps76

    Jul 10, 2008
    Medford, MA
    I offered to pay the sub. Which will be out of my pocket....luckily I'm not doing this really for money either, although I don't believe in playing for free. Lead gui**** is being a bitch. His point of view is "it's my band, I can play it now." He's so f'n stubborn.
     
  12. TBrett

    TBrett

    Nov 3, 2007
    Toronto, Canada
    I feel for you. Very embarrassing, to say the least. I'm thinking this situation can be prevented in future by having everyone in the band agree that if a band member has stated he's unsure about making a gig and a sub has been booked, the band member forfeits that gig even if his circumstances change. Sure, you can still pay the sub (and you must) even if you take the gig back, but having that rule in place prevents the whole awkward convo in the first place.
     
  13. singlemalt

    singlemalt Supporting Member

    Dec 15, 2007
    White Salmon, WA
    That's where guys end up only taking sub gigs from you guys that pay in advance, non refundable.

    You owe the sub the money agreed on. Whether he manages to fill the SAT night in question is his business. If he gets the rare double dip payday, happy Christmas to him.

    I've had contractors do this to me, book me for a number of days, then back out or reduce the call after I have turned down other work. They get a serious butt chewing, and I never take another call for them.

    Make it right for the sub.
     
  14. slaps76

    slaps76

    Jul 10, 2008
    Medford, MA
    Great point. Haven't been in this situation before, so didn't think of that.
     
  15. TBrett

    TBrett

    Nov 3, 2007
    Toronto, Canada
    Ah, if we only had a buck for all the situations we couldn't anticipate, none of us would ever want for money... I'll bet your guitarist wouldn't be so bitchy if it was he who had to call the sub and cancel. At the very least, he should pay half the sub's fee. But I can well understand if you don't want to go there.
     
  16. lfmn16

    lfmn16 SUSPENDED Supporting Member

    Sep 21, 2011
    charles town, wv
    First of all you said, "I asked him to do this one as well, which he agreed." YOU hired the sub, not your regular guitar player. Your regular guy really has no part in your dealing with the sub.

    Second, you entered a verbal contract when you hired the sub and agreed to pay him. Although it's probably not worth it he could take you to small claims court. You asked him to play a date for a fee and he agreed, subsequently turning down other work based on your agreement.

    There is only one question, "are you a professional that honors his obligations, or not?" Not trying to be a jack a-- here, but I don't know why there is even a question about whether or not you have honor your committments; etiquette has nothing to do with it.
     
  17. slaps76

    slaps76

    Jul 10, 2008
    Medford, MA
    I'm with ya....I mentioned in my post after your quoted one, I offered to pay the sub. I sent him an email asking if I can paypal over the money.

    Next time someone in the band(or myself) needs a sub, I'm making it a point there's no taking the gig/pay back.
     
  18. JohnMCA72

    JohnMCA72

    Feb 4, 2009
    Fire the lead guitar player & hire the sub full-time to replace him.
     
  19. Yep. This is the way it should be handled.
     
  20. spaz21387

    spaz21387

    Feb 25, 2008
    Portland oregon
    I say you drop your guitarist and get the sub to take his place all the time... the sub seems like he wont be a drama queen... and maybe show your regular guitarist this thread?
     

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