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Euphonic NL 210 - need help

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by DaveB, May 5, 2004.


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  1. DaveB

    DaveB

    Mar 29, 2000
    Toronto Ontario
    I've gone completely EA with an iamp800 and CXL112. I'm extremely happy with both but I want to add another cabinet for larger rooms. My first choice is a NL210, if only for the flexibility of having a 210 and 112 rather than two 112s ( I still want to bring only one cab wherever I can). But much to my surprise the dealer "strongly" directed me away from the NL210 because in his opinion the new "neo" 10" speakers don't hold up under higher volume nearly as well as the CXL112.
    Can anybody comment on the NL210 from this perspective?
     
  2. bkirk

    bkirk

    Oct 2, 2003
    Austin, TX
    Hi Dave,
    I'll jump in with my humble opinion.
    I recently bought a NL210 and the short answer is that I've been thrilled. I tried out a variety of great cabs and even A/Bed the NL210 with the CXL112. Maybe not a fair comparison but they were the last two standing. I loved the evenness and clarity with substance that the NL210 has. At one point, I was also steered away from getting the NL210. I bought it anyway because I was so very impressed with it's sound. I have a Mesa 112 cab and couple them as needed.
    To answer your question, my first gig with it was on a football field. I had a little PA reinforcement out front through our small mains but no monitor support for the stage sound. Also, we ran our drummer and percussionist through the PA so there was a lot of noise. The NL210 really cuts through. Everyone in the band could hear me well without it being overbearing. Some folks closer to the stage could identify the difference between the 210 and the PA and commented afterward about how great it sounded. I ran a fair amount of juice through it but probably nowhere near its capability. It also does a superb job in my other band with a loud guitar and loud keyboard. Granted, I haven't had the NL210 long so there is more data to come, but at this point, I couldn't be happier.
    You already know the CXL112. I'd say you probably can't go wrong with either cab. As I said, just my .02. Good luck with your decision!
     
  3. Mike Dimin

    Mike Dimin

    Dec 11, 1999
    Clinician: EA, Zon, Boomerang, TI. Author "The Art of Solo Bass"
    Your dealer has some strange motives or is just plain ignorant. The NL-210 is absolutley one of the best cabinets I have ever played through. I have both the Cxl-112l and the Nl-210. Either one, by themselves, is great. The two together will totally redefine your idea of what your bass can sound like. I have run them from both an iAMP 800 and the iAMP 500 with wonderful results. On smaller gigs I usually just use the 210. It is so crystal clear that you can hear every nuance of your playing. I think that you will find that the concensus here at talkbass will just negate the comments of the dealer.

    I don't know whcih dealer you are talking about, but I think that I have clue. As you might know I am affiliated with EA, if you want a dealer that is more knowledgeable, please, let me know .. I can hook you up.

    I notice that you are in Canada - EA is in the process of opening more dealers in Canada as we speak. Plus there are some very good, very knowledgeable guys like Bob Gollihur who sell over the internet or by phone

    Mike Dimin
     
  4. bkirk

    bkirk

    Oct 2, 2003
    Austin, TX
    Though Mike was speaking of both together, the NL210 has singlehandedly redefined my idea of what my bass can sound like.
    Thanks for allowing me to paraphrase, Mike.
     
  5. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    I think all EA stuff is great and you can't go wrong - the only thing I would consider is size and weight. So - the 210 could be a pretty heavy thing to lug around. I use a single EA VL208 for acoustic-size gigs and have been thinking about another EA cab for bigger ones(currently I add a Hartke 1 X 15 - which is loud but doesn't sound as good) .

    But when I looked at EA 210s previously I was thinking - oww, my aching back. 40 - 50 lbs is about my limit .

    Anybody know about weights of these cabs - which is the lightest around now?
     
  6. NeedMoreBass

    NeedMoreBass unregistered

    Feb 14, 2003
    The NL210 weighs about the same as your VL208. The old CXL210's and VL210's were the heavy monsters
     
  7. bkirk

    bkirk

    Oct 2, 2003
    Austin, TX
    Hi Bruce,
    I believe EA made heavier 210 cabs in the past. According to their website the NL210 = 44 lbs. I believe it. I have a bad back too and it's no problem for me.
     
  8. Doesn't the VL-208 weigh about 70lbs? If so the NL-210 is considerably lighter (26lbs) at 44lbs.

    I am runnning an iAmp800 into a CXL-112 and a CXL-210. It is amazing. I really liked the sound of the two cabinets by themselves (I never ran both together through my older amp). The two cabs together powered by the 800 sound ridiculous. They just sound like a lot more than the sum of their individual sounds. I can imagine that the NL-210 with a CXL-112 could be even better. All I can say is that I love this gear.

    Geoff
     
  9. Mike Dimin

    Mike Dimin

    Dec 11, 1999
    Clinician: EA, Zon, Boomerang, TI. Author "The Art of Solo Bass"
    I was editing the soon to be out new EA catalog and noticed an amazing thing - everything weighs 44 lbs (not really, but there are about 3 or 4 items that weigh in at 44 lbs).

    The weight of both Cxl112l and the NL-210 is 44 lbs. I think tht my 210 might be a tad lighter but it might be that psycology of thinking that a bigger box should weigh more.

    Mike
     
  10. Fred Labbidie

    Fred Labbidie Guest

    Apr 22, 2004
    Well, one of Neo's biggest design issues has been heat disappation. At high volumes, one could have a problem. I am aware of some eminence drivers that did fail in high volume situations.
    Anyway, questioning the dealers intelligence and integrity?
    Where do you get off with this?
     
  11. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    No, the VL208 is about 46lbs - but that's very encouraging - I might well be looking at getting an NL-210 at that weight - I shall check out the UK prices and availability!! :)
     
  12. AMJBASS

    AMJBASS Supporting Member

    Jan 8, 2002
    Ontario, Canada
    My next cab is going to be the NL210. Light weight. Handles a lot of power, with a smooth tone.
     
  13. Mike Dimin

    Mike Dimin

    Dec 11, 1999
    Clinician: EA, Zon, Boomerang, TI. Author "The Art of Solo Bass"
    Heat dissapation is a problem with Neo and as you are probably aware Neo loses it's magnetic properties if it gets too hot. There are also some companies that have jumped on the Neo bandwagon without doing the proper research into those and other issues directly relating to using Neo drivers. I have heard stories of Neo drivers failing under high heat circumstances (non of those were EA products, BTW). EA took 2 years of R&D before releasing the NL-210. Heat dissapation and certain neo related sound anomolies were addressed fully in the process. EA drivers are designed in house and are proprietary. They are not the stock Neo drivers that other companies are using. No other company does Neo like EA. No other company spends the time to get it right. I say this because no other company has John Dong as their designer. So, you stated that heat could be a problem with Neo. Yes it can, but not with the NL-210. If you want more info why, please take some time to read the technolgy pages at euphonicaudio.com


    This is not what I "get off on". Saying that one of the EA dealers is ignorant or has alternate motives is a difficult thing. EA is not sold in places like GC by minimum wage wannabees that really know very little about the gear. The technolgy involved in all EA gear is quite "heady". Dealers and users alike should have a pretty good understanding of the unique qualities that sets EA apart; technology such as Transmission Line, Class D, Neo, and more. If a dealer "strongly directed me away from the NL210 " then I question that dealers knowledge. If they have the knowledge, which I assume that they do, then I question their motives.

    Now if you want to know what I "get off on", I think you'd probably have to look in the OT threads.

    Mike
     
  14. B String

    B String Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    Hey Mike.
    Just to clarify. He didn't say you get off on it,
    he was asking, where do you get off with this.
    If he were actually attacking you, I'd be the first
    to stand by your side. You are both talented and
    knowledgable. BUT!!! Please realise that most of
    us interested in neo speakers have heard from
    many experts that over time, with much use, these
    speakers loose their thing. Kind of like plasma tv's.
    EA, may have solved all of these issues, but you
    can understand the skepticism. Hopefully, he won't
    be rude while being skeptical.
     
  15. Mike Dimin

    Mike Dimin

    Dec 11, 1999
    Clinician: EA, Zon, Boomerang, TI. Author "The Art of Solo Bass"
    Back in my neighborhood if someone starts a statement with "where do you get off saying ... " that is a bit of a challenge or insult. I hope I did a bit of a job turning into humor.

    I fully understand that heat has presented a problem for some companies' Neo drivers. I am glad that it has not been the case with EA. I also have the confidence in knowing that EA has some of the best customer service in the industry, just in case anything does go wrong. This has been attested to numerous times on this site alone. So if anything does go wrong you can always expect the utmost in care.

    I want skepticism. It is to EA's benefit. When you challenge the tradional technology, when you question the status quo, you might find that EA has a very different answer than most of the others. The way EA uses class D is different than everyone else and of course, EA is the only MI manufacturer using transmission lines in their cabinet design. Finally up until the recently released combos from H&K, EA was the only company using Wizzer cones. So by all means, be skeptical and be informed

    Mike
     
  16. B String

    B String Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2002
    Los Angeles
    tru dat
     
  17. wneff

    wneff Supporting Member

    May 27, 2003
    Woburn, MA
    Mike,
    I think we all know who the dealer you are talking about is and in my opinion this dealer knows exacly what he's talking about and the dealer's motives are to sell the best cab that's right for the customer's application. What is if the customer asked for a stand alone speaker in a loud rock band? Unsing octavers and weird flangers and stuff. My CXL 112 died within 1 hour doing that, and the NL 210 has a lower output than the CXL, so for that demand "the dealer" would be absolutely right to steer the customer away from the NL210. I have to admit, the NL 210 is the best sounding cab I've heard, but I am also a physicist and there is only so much you can do: Either you create lots of resonances (sounds bad), or you don't have lots of resonances, it sounds good and its just not that loud. Thats it. The ransmission line buys a 1.5 db advantage over ported cabs, cool, but nothing magical. Means: The NL 210 sounds good at the expense of total achievable volume. There are cabs that are louder.
    To imply that the dealer is ignorant or has strange motives is an attack that I would not have expected from a person that normally tries to help EA. What are your motives for this move?

    Wolfram Neff
    user of iAMP800 + CXL112
     
  18. Bruce Lindfield

    Bruce Lindfield Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor Gold Supporting Member

    Oh well - maybe not!

    So - it seems Overwater are the only people in the UK with these and they cost over £1,000!!

    Also - when I bought my EA cabs from them before - it was on interest-free-credit and they don't do this anymore!! :(

    So, I don't think I will be getting one any time soon! :meh:

    Unless anybody knows of a retailer that does credit and delivers to the UK...?
     
  19. Mike Dimin

    Mike Dimin

    Dec 11, 1999
    Clinician: EA, Zon, Boomerang, TI. Author "The Art of Solo Bass"
    No, we don't all know. Since EA has many dealers who do both internet and mail order it could have been one of many. I found out, definitively, who the dealer was only after the dealer sent an email accusing me of things that were just not true. In fact, not once in this thread is the dealer's name mentioned. Yet EA has been mentioned 147 times. The crux of the thread is that the dealer suggested against the NL-210. So who is really hurt here, the unnamed dealer or EA .. and who did the hurting? The dealer's name is never mentioned only the suggestion not to buy EA gear.


    That is not what the customer asked for. If you read not only the post but DaveB's profile as well, you would notice that he plays upright in a jazz trio and R&B/Motown. He did not want a stand alone cabinet, he wanted an extension cabinet for larger rooms. Are their times when an NL-210 is not appropriate? sure - but this is not one of them.


    Sounds more like their was a problem with the gain structure, not the output of the cabinet.

    I am with you on that!

    Yes their might be cabs that are louder I have not done all research. There is also "percieved" loudness. This comes from some cabinets that are pushing distortion in the 1-4k range. Since 1-4k is the range that human hearing is most accute, the distortion presented gives the perception of greater volume. That is a decision that each person can make - do they want the distortion and percieved volume or do they want a clean sound across the bandwidth?

    As i said, the dealer's name has never been mentioned, although EA was mentioned 147 times - who takes the hit? If a customer is predisposed to buying a certain product that the dealer thinks is not right, why doesn't the dealer give a 24 or 48 hour trial period, "test drive" so to speak. Buying bass gear is an investment, having the opportunity to play it on a gig makes sense. The best local dealer in my area offers that service. What are my motives? Really simple - to make available EA products to those who want them. Dave B was a motivated buyer, who even after being discouraged from buying the NL-210 sought further advice here. That says something about his sincere level of interest.

    Thanks for you comments. I hope that I have been able to set the record straight.
     
  20. wneff

    wneff Supporting Member

    May 27, 2003
    Woburn, MA
    I don't understand this comment. How does the gain structure affect the cabinet? I use the same gain structure on my GK, Trace 2103X, EV 15L, and Tube Works combo and thei're still alive. If its the gain structure all these would be fried, too.

    BTW, last time I was there the dealer and I also discussed a second cabinet and he steered me away from the NL210, too, and recommended a second CXL112. This cabinet is also built by EA, so he did not steer me away from EA at all, just to the product that would help me meet my goals. Looks like in Dave's case the dealer did the same thing. I for sure like to see that a dealer is pushing for the right equipment for the customer and not for the one that is more expensive.

    Wolfram
     



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