Eustachian Tube Dysfunction, IEMs, and getting the worship band to accept IEMs

Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by 74hc, May 9, 2017.


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  1. 74hc

    74hc

    Nov 19, 2015
    Sunny California
    I have some questions for those with any experience on:

    1- If you had issues with eustachian tube dysfunction, and what medical procedure did you use for fix it?

    2- Would IEMs help? Since I don't have the exact dysfunciton level in both ears, I need to adjust the balance.

    3- How did you get your band to allow IEMs when these were never used in the past? I doubt that I could get a feed and a good mix from the board. Any solution will likely have to involve just me.


    The ear-nose-throat specialist I am seeing is difficult. She spends most of the time telling me nothing will work. Which I reply asking her if she is telling me that I am going deaf. She says no, but it sounds like that is what she's saying. We get back to treatments but then she still goes on and on about nothing works. It's been going on for a year.

    I've never been disappointed with the care from Kaiser but this is an exception.

    I should mention I came across a worship musician that advises worship bands and got to understand how he mixes for IEMs in practice, and for the service. I tried it since I have a Ableton license from a focusrite product, and was impressed using my studio headphones.

    I have tennmak dual driver pro IEMs for my cellphone, but just for conference calls. Never really considered using it for anything else until now. I'm going to give those a try and if this is a solution with some longevity, invest in something like Westone dual drivers.

    Any thoughts, recommendations will help both for hearing and IEMs. Thanks.
     
  2. Gatlin

    Gatlin

    Sep 22, 2016
    Ellisville, MS
    I can't really comment on the medical item, but I can comment on the in ears.

    Our worship team uses in ears and we all love it. If nothing else I'd recommend you and the drummer use in ears so you can run a click track or even just a metronome. It definitely helps us stay on the correct tempo.

    Even if you are the only one using in ears it can still be accomplished fairly easily and without significant expense. We use rolls wired components which work really well and are cheap in my opinion. I just feed an aux signal to a rolls power center which can feed up to 4 rolls personal monitor boxes. Everyone plays through foh so it's easy to mix an in ear signal to everyone and the rolls personal monitor boxes allows each muscician to control their volume separately from the main mix. We spent $600 for the entire worship team (7 people) getting setup for in ears. Just for you I'd bet you could do it for $100 or so (not counting the ear buds). If you want more info on that let me know and I can detail it out further.
     
    s0c9 likes this.
  3. s0c9

    s0c9 Supporting Member

    Jan 9, 2014
    Ft.Worth/Dallas
    1964 Audio artist, Fractal Audio Beta Tester
    I can't speak to the medical aspect, but #3 will be your challenge.
    Too many musicians are NOT comfortable with sticking stuff in their ears, will complain about not getting the amp-in-the-room sound or feel-the-bass that they "need" to feel comfortable playing.
    The big thing is to give them control over their own mix. It's unlikely that the drummer will want the same mix as the worship leader. Most everyone wants "more me" in their ears, then adjust the rest for their own comfort levels. For example.. the singer in my secular band has his vocals KRANKED in his mix.. I could not work with that.
    Many mid to larger churches use Aviom or Behringer systems.. If your mixer is an X32 series.. you can run multiple P16-M's right off the console using CAT5. Aviom requires purchase of a sending unit and the individual control stations. Behringer makes a sending unit also (P16-I) so that you can use either system with ANY console.

    Again, your biggest challenge will be convincing the band.. In my church we don't allow amps on stage. They are in sound boxes back of stage. This puts some folks off playing because they cannot adjust to having to use IEM's. There's also the budget... Who buys and owns the system? Do the band provide their own buds or does the church provide them. We have Westone UM's for those who don't bring there own. The whole move can be a challenge, especially when your band is "older" and used to playing with wedges.
     
  4. Gatlin

    Gatlin

    Sep 22, 2016
    Ellisville, MS
    I'll add that I started out with in ears as the only one in the band (7 people total with me being the bass player) as an experiment. For the first month or so, I ran a Rolls personal monitor box (PM50s -- Rolls PM50S Personal Monitor Amp) and fed an aux signal from our analog board into the "monitor input" on the box via a 1/4" trs cable. I then run out of my DI (sansamp bddi) onstage to the mic input on the Rolls PM50s (my 1/4" that would normally go to an amp goes to my rolls pm50s and the xlr continues to go the mixer as it always has). With a few cables that I already had I was able to get going with my own in ear setup for only the cost of the PM50s. The band continued to use the floor monitors during my experiment with the in ears and it didn't bother me one bit. My ear buds sealed off nicely and I tweaked the aux mix to hear exactly what I wanted in the mix. We only run two mixes to the in ears at our church and everyone has a PM50s (more me box) so they have one volume knob for the overall mix and one volume knob for their instrument/vocals. It works well for us and everyone loves it so far. I plan to upgrade us to a digital board so everyone can have an independent mix once we get the funds available, but no one really complains about the overall mix as long as they can adjust their own volume via the PM50s.

    The only thing you'll need to be aware of is everything needs to be run through the mixer. For example, our drums don't really need a mic (other than kick), but I have an overhead mic that is only to feed our in ears. You might need to do the same for anyone using an amp. Don't send that signal to foh, only to the aux feed for the in ears.
     
  5. 74hc

    74hc

    Nov 19, 2015
    Sunny California
    For those that use the Rolls personal monitor amps, can you set the volume independently between the left and right ears? Or do you need to do that on the mixer feeding it?

    The problem I have is that the cues come from the piano player who's the BL, and she's speaking softly. She largely just cues the intro. She's not mic'd, only the choir singers are.

    Usually, there is no drummer, so I listen to the low end of the piano, and my own sense of time. A click track would be great because the drummer we usually end up with will miss the beats on probably 25% of the bars. He usually stops, then starts back up when he gets locked back into the down beats.

    What I would like to do is mix IEM tracks that have clicks, cues, and live feed, and maybe track of someone who's not there that weekend (and feed that into the mixer to the PA?).

    I would like to have the same with tracks of the musicians out to a wav file for the girls choir to practice on their own. Practice is only once a week for them. Since I have three of the closing songs in Ableton Live, I can export those. If we need practice audio, we usually half-hazardly record the piano on a cellphone and send that out to the girls, and musicians.

    I make my own IEM mix for practice now as I mentioned. I use clicks, cues, and backtracks in the key we're using.

    I guess the next step is that I need to get more familiar with the mixer. I usually stay away from that area of the stage. Plus, get a personal monitor and set it up in my practice setup to get familiar with it as well.

    Probably meandering and thinking out loud here while taking in the advice here. Thanks.
     
  6. There is no balance control on the Rolls. However you do not have to use in-ear monitors. We used standard can type headphones. Certain audiophile headphones do have balance controls.

    Foam lined headphones also enable you to hear your surroundings as well (vocal cues).

    P.S. I believe it is the PM351 you'll want, not the PM50. It offers independent control of an instrument, a microphone (you could mic the worship leader), and a line level main or monitor signal from the board.
     
  7. craigie

    craigie

    Nov 11, 2015
    calgary
    I wonder what kind of ear problems you're having? I get recurring ear aches in my left ear. It doesn't seem to be a big problem, just annoying and painful, usually not too bad. I've been to a few specialists and they couldn't figure it out. I think I just have a narrow eustacian tube that tends to get swollen or blocked. One doctor told me to plug my nose and blow. Seems to help a bit. If you find out more about your problem, please let me know, could help me.
    And there are some good threads on IEM'S On here.
     
  8. Gatlin

    Gatlin

    Sep 22, 2016
    Ellisville, MS
    1. For those that use the Rolls personal monitor amps, can you set the volume independently between the left and right ears? Or do you need to do that on the mixer feeding it?

    No, you can't change the volume from left to right on the Rolls. You can set them up mono or stereo though. They come default in stereo where you hear your instrument in one ear and the monitor mix in the other ear. I actually changed ours to the mono mix just for personal preference.

    2. The problem I have is that the cues come from the piano player who's the BL, and she's speaking softly. She largely just cues the intro. She's not mic'd, only the choir singers are.

    In a case like this I would ask the BL to use a mic for cues and you can send it only to the aux channel that you are feeding your in ears from (you could also send a minor amount through the floor wedges just so the rest of the band can hear the cues better). It wouldn't need to go to front of house. I do this with our click tracks for the in ear mix. They go to a channel on the mixer that has the aux turned up and the foh fader all the way down.

    3. Usually, there is no drummer, so I listen to the low end of the piano, and my own sense of time. A click track would be great because the drummer we usually end up with will miss the beats on probably 25% of the bars. He usually stops, then starts back up when he gets locked back into the down beats.

    This is a perfect scenario for the click tracks or at least a metronome. Even with a drummer our team had a bad habit of speeding up during the lively parts of songs. We can all tell a drastic improvement with the clicks. Some songs we only use a metronome. Just depends on the song and the availability of the click tracks (we get ours from multitracks.com).

    4. What I would like to do is mix IEM tracks that have clicks, cues, and live feed, and maybe track of someone who's not there that weekend (and feed that into the mixer to the PA?).

    This is exactly what we do. We do not currently have an electric guitar and have only two acoustics. We play numerous songs that need at a minimum a rhythm guitar. The songs that we do that I can get from multitracks.com I add a touch of the rhythm to the front of house mix. It's actually really easy to do so. I even add a few background vocals to the in ear mix because our background singers can't seem to stay on pitch all the time and it's like singing along with a song in your car when you hear the backgrounds in the in ears. They can sing along as opposed to knowing exactly which harmony to hit.

    5. I guess the next step is that I need to get more familiar with the mixer. I usually stay away from that area of the stage. Plus, get a personal monitor and set it up in my practice setup to get familiar with it as well.

    It's actually really easy to accomplish once you get the right components (Rolls PM50S or something similar) and cables. The easiest way to get the mix you want from the mixer is send a 1/4" feed from an aux on your mixer to whatever "more-me" box you decide to go with. You then just adjust the dial for each channel that you want to hear in your in ear mix on only that aux just like the sound guy would do for floor wedges. It will take a little trial and error to get the mix how you want it, but it is very do-able. I can say that because we've recently done it and implemented it band wide and had great success (all for what I feel is very little cost).

    Probably meandering and thinking out loud here while taking in the advice here. Thanks.

    I can take a few pics of our setup this Sunday if it would be helpful. I've read about and seen better setups than we currently have, but ours is budget friendly and works for us.

    Check out this video. It's one of several that I watched before I got us setup and it led me to the solution that we are currently using.
    Low Cost In-Ear Monitors

     
  9. Gatlin

    Gatlin

    Sep 22, 2016
    Ellisville, MS
    P.S. I believe it is the PM351 you'll want, not the PM50. It offers independent control of an instrument, a microphone (you could mic the worship leader), and a line level main or monitor signal from the board.[/QUOTE]

    Well, in our case, we only have one person on the team who is singing and playing. I got him the PM351 and the other six of us only have the PM50S. The PM351 is almost double the cost so it adds up pretty quick. I would suggest the PM50S unless the person is singing and playing in which case the PM351 is the only solution.

    I see where you went with the PM351 though. In his case I guess he could just run a mic from the WL that isn't actually going through the mixer. That could be done, but I would personally run it through the mixer and into the aux channel so that if anyone else decides to go in ear with him the signal path wouldn't need changing. Just my 2 cents though.
     
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