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F-22 vs Eurofighter Typhoon? German Typhoons do surprisingly well!

Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by Relic, Jul 31, 2012.


  1. Relic

    Relic Cow are you?

    Sep 12, 2006
    Robbinsville, NJ
    This is a neat read. I love the latest generation of fighters - Rafale, Gripen, Eurofighter and so on. I'm very curious to see how the F-35 does once entered into service.

    http://news.yahoo.com/f-22-fighter-loses-79-billion-advantage-dogfights-201119575--abc-news-topstories.html

     
  2. I've always liked the A10 warthog
     
  3. There's just something about the A-10. It just doesn't look like it should fly. It looks like a mean kid amongst a bunch of pretty boys.
     
  4. On article, the F-22 looks like a beast. Able to take out multiple enemies before you can even see them and before they can even shoot you? Nice!
     
  5. Relic

    Relic Cow are you?

    Sep 12, 2006
    Robbinsville, NJ
    yep! But the interesting thing is that the Eurofigther - if it can get past the BVR (beyond visual range) kill zone of the F-22 - is quite a match for the F-22. Thus far it's good friends who exclusively fly the Eurofighter and Rafale for instance but it makes you wonder... if and when countermeasures are discovered (and they always are) just how long can the F-22 dominate? Considering the SU-27/37's which many contend are more than a match for any Eurofighter, F-16, or Rafale are being sold abroad almost indiscriminately, I think the US AF might have to consider that the F-22 should be a work in progress, and not the end-all, be-all.
     
  6. Relic

    Relic Cow are you?

    Sep 12, 2006
    Robbinsville, NJ
    For a visual:

    Russian SU-37 top, US F-16 bottom:

    [​IMG]

    Eurofighter Typhoons:

    eurofighter-diamond-raf291.

    French Rafales:

    [​IMG]

    Swedish Gripen:

    [​IMG]

    US F-22:

    300px-Lockheed_Martin_F-22A_Raptor_JSOH.

    and the one that's supposedly going to put the West and Asian allies squarely on top of the "air dominance" arena, the F-35:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. It's just one of those things where it's always escalating.

    Though being able to take them down before they can get that close is probably a good approach!
     
  8. Also, isn't the F-35 already in service? I'm sure we've got a couple of them over here now.

    There has also been some issue where we were meant to be getting F-35C's when they were produced, but because of issues we're going with the F-35B's (requires some alterations to new/currently being built carriers).
     
  9. The article pretty much sums it up, if you're able to get close enough to an F-22 to dogfight you've already been blessed by the Gods. Also, this is one-on-one combat, fighter jets work in at least pairs if not a flight of 4. Lotsa variables in one-on-one, and the Germans are pretty damned good in their own right.

    And remember this: The Eurofighter is still a fairly new fighter jet as well (introduced to service in 2003), so while it's not too far behind the power curve technology-wise (especially when you consider that the F-14, F-15, and F-16 are all products of the 70s) it's well beyond what our potential enemies (N. Korea, Iran, etc) have. And that's just the equipment, pilots matter as well and I'd be impressed if those other countries could manage the level of training and experience our pilots have.

    As for the A-10, there's something to be said about one of the ugliest attack aircraft in existence, that's got a dirt-simple cockpit, and the highest survivability rate in the world. I liken it to a dirt bike (A-10) vs a MotoGP Racer (F-22, Typhoon, etc). Ya the F-jets are faster, sexier, and a lot more useful but the A-10 can take ten times the beating any of those can and still fly. Another little known fact: above 5k feet A-10s can't be heard on the ground, so their prime targets never know they are coming :)

    Peace,
    Greg
     
  10. Relic

    Relic Cow are you?

    Sep 12, 2006
    Robbinsville, NJ
    ^ I had a cousin in A-stan. He said that the freakiest yet most beautiful sound in the universe is the weird whine of the A-10, followed by the growl of the 30mm canon..
     
  11. While I'm a big fan of the later Russian jets (MiG-29, Su-27/30) I don't think they are a match for the latest generation of fighters because they are still based on 70's tech, and the countries that would start a fight with us don't have the level of training and experience we do. Factor that in with the logistical nightmare that fighter jets bring with them (that we have mostly worked out), and any fight is going to be short-lived.

    In addition, it's US Govt Policy to attain Air Supremacy as soon as possible, it's a Force Multiplier. First things to get hit: airbases and SAM sites with C3I (Command, Control, Communications, Intelligence) being right behing that. Once we have attained Air Supremacy, it's just like the Delta Airlines commercials: "You are now free to roam about the country" :)

    Peace,
    Greg
     
  12. I understand that in desert warfare, which, I'll assume would be the primary theatre of any major conflict, air superiority is the key, correct?
     
  13. Little late when kanonfodr is at the helm.
     
  14. Relic

    Relic Cow are you?

    Sep 12, 2006
    Robbinsville, NJ
    Me too. Somehow the Russians have not only managed to build some really good aircraft over the past few decades, but they've also managed to build some style into them as well :)
    But, I don't fully agree with you in regards to the sophistication and training of our potential enemies. In most cases, yes I think it's true. The Su's that are being sold abroad to the smaller countries are often "monkey models" but the Chinese, and Russians are narrowing the tech gap FAST.
    A few years ago the Indians shocked the hell out of us with their abilities. This, using Mig 29s, Mig-21's and some dassault Mirage's (I think?). Always expect the unexpected.

    And that's smart thinking right there and I'm sure we can do it quite well. However, I'm also sure that the Chinese and Russians for instance ALSO know we can do this quite well. It would not surprise me one bit if they were developing or have already developed counter measures.
     
  15. won't matter when the giant battle-mechs from that "Terminator" thread get ramped up.
     
  16. Unprofessional

    Unprofessional

    Mar 5, 2012
    Well, I'm not too concerned about the dog fighting capabilities of our allies.
    I'd be more concerned about the dogfighting capabilities of the Russians, the Chinese and their proxies. Assuming that they can close to dogfighting range.
    I haven't noticed a lot of dogfighting in recent air conflicts. But, I guess you have to be able to win a dogfight if it comes down to it in order for the pilot to save his/her own life.
     
  17. Yeah, but it tends to be your allies that you can stage such wargames with!

    Though all this talk of dogfights reminds me of some Spitfire Ale posters:

    neame_poster.
     
  18. My apologies, this is the kind of subject I really do love to talk (and talk and talk) about :)

    I don't remember that, got a link or something for me? Would like to know

    The Russians we are on pretty good terms with, now, so I'm not really worried about going to war with them. China is a possible adversary, and their tech is good (and getting better every day), and they've got us in the numbers game as well. But there's only a few counter-measures against Cruise Missile strikes, and I don't know about anything that's ever been fielded. I suppose GPS jamming would be a key thing, but most of the higher-$ CMs and every modern combat jet is equipped with a jam-proof Inertial Navigation System. Unless they wanna screw us and themselves (themselves more) by hitting off a few EMP weapons.


    There hasn't been much dogfighting in recent conflicts because it's easier and safer to attack enemy airplanes before they take off :)

    Peace,
    Greg
     
  19. Relic

    Relic Cow are you?

    Sep 12, 2006
    Robbinsville, NJ
    Cope India (I did get some details wrong, apologies for that):

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1237790/posts

    Not necessarily a panacea for the Chinese but a damn good contender:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/18/AR2007011801029.html
     
  20. This may have been mentioned- I'm on one cup of coffee... anyone remember early Viet Nam bouts between Phantoms and MiGs- when we duct-taped guns onto the F-4s because the MiGs weren't playing by the *missiles-only* rule?
     

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