Fake / Faux Guitar / 8 String Bass Toneprint for TC Electronic Sub'N'Up / Sub'N'Up Mini

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by NoiseNinja, Aug 1, 2021.

  1. NoiseNinja

    NoiseNinja Experimental-psychedelic-ambient-noise-drone Inactive

    Feb 23, 2011
    Denmark
    So I use my TC Electronic Sub'N'Up Mini for an effect somewhat similar to that of playing an 8 string bass, that is a bass with pairs of respectively bass and octave strings, and I think I have succeeded at making a custom toneprint that comes about as close to a natural sounding 1 octave up sound as is possible by just using a simple octaver, so though I would share it with you.

    Mind it doesn't sound exactly like a guitar, pitching up your signal a whole octave with nothing additionally done to it other than EQ is always going to sound somewhat artificial, but close enough for it to quite decently work in a mix as a faux guitar (especially if you are going for an overdriven guitar) or faking an 8 string bass.

    Also expect it to sound most realistic on the 2 highest strings and most artificial on the low E (and eventual low B) string.



    So here we go (Faux Guitar/8 string bass Toneprint):


    First load the "Deafult Poly" template, then edit it as follows :


    1st tab :
    Row 1 : -100dB :-: -100dB :-: [OctUp level] :-: [Dry level]
    Row 2 : [Drive Gain OctUp] (even if you want a clean octave up tone try and see how +2dB works) :-: 0 :-: 0


    2nd tab :
    Row 1 : LoCut = 35Hz (you might be able to get away with 40Hz too without affecting tracking on the low E, or in case you are using a 5 or 6 string bass with a low B you will need to set it to 30Hz, or even lower)

    Row 2 : HiShlv = 12.5kHz :-: -20dB :-: 12dB

    3rd tab :

    Row 1 : LoCut = 20.0kHz

    Row 2 : [Bypass]

    4th tab :
    Row 1 : LoCut = 20.0kHz

    Row 2 : [Bypass]

    5th tab :

    Row 1 : LoShlv = 4.50kHz :-: +2dB :-: 9dB
    Row 2 : HiShlv = 8.00kHz :-: -20dB :-: 9dB


    6th tab :
    (no adjustments)

    7th tab :
    Sub/Sub 2 [knob assigment] : (this/one of these knob(s) can eventually be assigned to [Octaver - Drive Gain Up], otherwise clear all eventual other assignments)
    Dry [knob assignment] : (assign to [Octaver - Dry Level] and clear all eventual other assignments)
    Up [knob assignment] : (assign to [Octaver - Wet Level Up] and clear all eventual other assignments)



    Save the toneprint under whichever name you'd like and then save it to the pedal.

    You might get better results if you run a compressor right before the Sub'N'Up, otherwise keep the Sub'N'Up as the very first unit in your signal chain after the bass (except for an eventual tuner).




    If you try this Toneprint out please post a reply in this thread with how it worked for you.

    Other suggestion on how to achieve as natural a sounding 1 octave up faux guitar/8 string bass effect is of course welcome too.


    @yakmastermax You might want to try these suggested toneprint settings if you are still looking for a faux guitar sound and still owns your Sub'N'Up pedal, I changed some EQ settings compared to the last settings I suggested to you, and in my opinion this gets considerably closer.

    As I mentioned above it is still not 100% completely realistic, but it might still work for you, at least I think this gets pretty close.
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
  2. I have never been able to edit anything on my pc, laptop or moto power phone running android with TonePrint. I can load sounds but that is it, after searching hi + low, asking numerous times here and on the help page for TC all to no avail. I just figured it was due to not being in the Apple iOS or Samsung high end Android cult.

    Oh well I still have fun with my Sub n Up mini
     
  3. NoiseNinja

    NoiseNinja Experimental-psychedelic-ambient-noise-drone Inactive

    Feb 23, 2011
    Denmark
    The Toneprint editor works perfectly well on my 10 years old Windows 7 PC, just need to plug the powered pedal into it via an USB cable that fits, then open the Toneprint Editor app, chose the template I want to edit, click the edit button in the top right corner of the toneprint app, save the edited toneprint when done clicking the bottom right of the window, then chose the toneprint I just saved and save it to the pedal clicking the bottom right of the window again, close the app and disconnect the pedal (note that it is not possible to edit the Artist Toneprints, only the Toneprint Templates that TC Electronic made).

    Done!

    Admittedly I once in a while experience that the toneprint app doesn't detect my pedal, but then all I need to do is to close the app, unplug the pedal, plug the pedal once again, and then open the app.

    Also be sure you have the latest version of the Toneprint Editor app installed.

    I agree though TC Electronic support is horribly lacking, especially considering how relatively advanced most of their products are to use, where it would be needed so much more.

    The toneprint editor guide/manual is a joke, basically mostly just telling you what most already know, and not what is actually needed to really understand how it works more specifically with/for the individual pedals that utilizes it (mind they do have some somewhat more useful toneprint editor video guides on YouTube, but only for a couple few out of all the pedals that actually uses the toneprint technology).
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
  4. NoiseNinja

    NoiseNinja Experimental-psychedelic-ambient-noise-drone Inactive

    Feb 23, 2011
    Denmark
    I should probably add:

    The result might vary depending on the tone of your bass and how you otherwise have it EQ'ed, but for me at least this works exceptionally well, and sounds surprisingly natural/realistic.

    Using roundwound strings and having a fairly bright zingy unaffected clean tone with a lot of bite and snap, as I do, I believe does help the 1 octave up signal to blend in better and thereby contributes to it sounding more natural and realistic.

    Not having the 1 octave up signal dialed in too high in the mix (finding just the right balance) helps as well.

    I personally have the 1 octave up signal dialed in a bit lower than it probably typically would be with a real 8 string bass.

     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
  5. @NoiseNinja Thank you for that I will give it a go with my new laptop and see if I get any success. I will admit a certain lack of patience at times with technology when it frustrates and infuriates.
     
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  6. NoiseNinja

    NoiseNinja Experimental-psychedelic-ambient-noise-drone Inactive

    Feb 23, 2011
    Denmark
    !!!Improved Settings!!!

    I have managed to improve the realism of the 1 octave up effect further compared to the previous suggested settings.

    There were still some undesired digital wobble artifacts with the previous suggested settings, especially used with the 2 lower strings of a 4 string bass, but I managed to almost entirely eliminate that, resulting in an even clearer, more realistic and less artificial sounding 1 octave up effect.

    And the only thing that need to be done is swapping out the set frequency for the input signal to the octave engine (Tab 2 - Row 2 : 12.5kHz) with the set frequency for the post effect output of the 1 octave up effect (Tab 5 - Row 2 : 8.00kHz).

    That is setting the frequency for the HiShelv EQ filter in Tab 2 - Row 2 to 8.00kHz, and the frequency for the HiShelv EQ filter in Tab 5 - Row 2 to 12.5kHz, but otherwise keep all other settings as originally suggested in the OP.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2021
    yakmastermax likes this.
  7. Sound clips?
     
  8. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Yamaha, Ampeg, Line 6, EMG
    Very cool! I'm into imitating 8-strings with pedals, though I usually use a Pitchfork. It doesn't sound 100%, but as long as you don't get the upper octave too loud, it does a darn good approximation of one, certainly enough for the times someone wants to hear "I Want You To Want Me" or "Jeremy" :D
     
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  9. NoiseNinja

    NoiseNinja Experimental-psychedelic-ambient-noise-drone Inactive

    Feb 23, 2011
    Denmark
    Just a follow up :

    I decided to eventually go with the settings in my initial OP post, as I discovered it just sounds best in the mix.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2021